I love the button - live 3/6

[DeathDonkey]

Live 3/6 game at the local casino. Great typical loose passive game. 2 limpers, MP raises, CO coldcalls, I coldcall on the button with 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif BB calls, limpers call. 6 to the flop for 12 sb.

MP raiser is a LAG guy I've played alot with who will never fold before the river and will call the river with almost any pair.
EP guy who will be important I had never seen before, so my only read was on one earlier hand where he raised preflop, bet a JTxy board with unimproved AK, rivered a King, bet and won.

Flop is 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif checked to MP who bets, CO calls, I call, folded to EP guy who checkraises, MP calls, CO folds, I call. 3 to the turn.

Turn is T /images/graemlins/spade.gif EP guy bets, MP calls, I raise, they both call.

River is 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif checked around.

Any comments on my flop / turn play? I hope the preflop is standard. Is there a value bet here on the river?

Thanks,
DeathDonkey

[aces_dad]

If you felt one of the blinds would call you're getting 6 in pf with a good multiway hand in position, so the cc seems fine here specially since you don't respect the PFR.

Why did you just call the flop instead of raising?

Normally I don't think the river is a clear value bet but, since MP only called the turn raise, you may still be best here. You likely have PFR beat but MP's c/r could easily be TP?K and your kicker is decent but not great.

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you just call the flop instead of raising?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the question, I don't know which is better (stealth bump)

-DeathDonkey

[Xhad]

The pot is 14 bets, and you have 3 people potentially left to act after you if you raise. The problem with a hand-protecting raise is that now their hands are seeing 7/1 odds, plus some implied odds, meaning that if even one person calls with a flush draw the person after him can justify a call with a gutshot or a lower piece of the board than yours. Unless you get check/3betted but if that happens I don't think I like the hand anymore. I would have raised the flop but now that I think about it waiting for the turn seems better. Especially since the guy you say is a LAG is more likely than the average person to bet into you on the turn.

[thesharpie]

Don't see what the turn raise accomplishes. I'd like a turn raise if it was the LAG leading and the EP hadn't check raised the flop.

I would raise the flop there. I reckon yr winning most of the time here as 8's are commonly folded preflop.

Also I don't know what the turn raise accomplishes? I want opponents betting into me if I hit my non /images/graemlins/diamond.gif straight, and betting is not encouraging that action. Additionally I'm probably folding to another overcard on the river anyway so I don't see the value.

River bet - no. EP flop check-raise and turn bet is enough to put me off.

[Aaron W.]

I'll join you one of these days... maybe my weekends will free up a little in a couple weeks.

I think the turn raise is a little bad, but not terrible. You can't fold if he 3-bets because of your OESD outs and your call here would close the action. Your hand is good, but not good enough to be worth a raise.

The river value bet is very thin. EP guy can hold a lot of hands that beat you (including an 8 with better kicker), but may not call with so many of them.