Crazy Pushes $22 sng

[Olback]

Eurobet $22 sng

Hi all. I am back from my honeymoon and getting back into sngs and i am having a bad run of it at the moment. Below are 2 hands which i think pushing preflop is correct but i would like peoples opinions on it.

Hand 1:

#Game No : 2637052650
***** Hand History for Game 2637052650 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:15367387 Level:3 Blinds(25/50) - Thursday, September 01, 21:10:38 EDT 2005
Table Table 14012 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 3: MikeSLTJ23 ( $1510 )
Seat 6: senorstan ( $1250 )
Seat 4: mcgowan0294 ( $605 )
Seat 7: JasonAkaFuzz ( $2075 )
Seat 2: SHEPPASHEPPA ( $1210 )
Seat 1: Olback1 ( $665 )
Seat 8: jadish ( $685 )
Trny:15367387 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Olback1 [ 8s 8h ]
>You have options at Table 15008 Table!.
senorstan calls [50].
JasonAkaFuzz folds.
jadish folds.
Olback1 is all-In [665]
SHEPPASHEPPA is all-In [1210]
MikeSLTJ23 folds.
mcgowan0294 folds.
senorstan calls [1160].
>You have options at Table 14893 Table!.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Th, 2c, Js ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Td ]
** Dealing River ** [ As ]
senorstan shows [ Qs, Qh ] two pairs, queens and tens.
Olback1 shows [ 8s, 8h ] two pairs, tens and eights.
SHEPPASHEPPA shows [ Kd, Ks ] two pairs, kings and tens.
SHEPPASHEPPA wins 1090 chips from side pot #1 with two pairs, kings and tens.
SHEPPASHEPPA wins 2070 chips from the main pot with two pairs, kings and tens.
Olback1 finished in seventh place.
Olback1 has left the table.
Game #2637056606 starts.

Senorstan had limped before preflop and was generally weak when he did it. I wanted to push because i did not want to raise to 200 or so and then have to fold to bet on an ugly flop. i figured that if i was called i would be 50/50 and there was a good chance i would take down the pot.

Hand 2:

#Game No : 2637575956
***** Hand History for Game 2637575956 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:15370400 Level:3 Blinds(25/50) - Thursday, September 01, 22:31:36 EDT 2005
Table Table 14009 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 3: chopbox80 ( $1280 )
Seat 6: rsqb07 ( $2605 )
Seat 5: Olback1 ( $670 )
Seat 9: saber7421 ( $600 )
Seat 1: Reconnecting ( $725 )
Seat 10: rivernoise ( $595 )
Seat 7: FrancisEDec ( $780 )
Seat 4: Fergus13 ( $745 )
Trny:15370400 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Olback1 [ 6h 6c ]
Reconnecting folds.
>You have options at Table 15028 Table!.
chopbox80 folds.
Fergus13 folds.
Olback1 is all-In [670]
>You have options at Table 15028 Table!.
>You have options at Table 15063 Table!.
rsqb07 calls [670].
FrancisEDec folds.
saber7421 folds.
rivernoise folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, 4c, 9d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4h ]
>You have options at Table 15028 Table!.
** Dealing River ** [ Js ]
Olback1 shows [ 6h, 6c ] two pairs, sixes and fours.
rsqb07 shows [ Tc, Td ] two pairs, tens and fours.
rsqb07 wins 1415 chips from the main pot with two pairs, tens and fours.
Olback1 finished in eighth place.
Olback1 has left the table.
Game #2637580036 starts.

Similar to above pushed becuase blinds were going up soon and i figured this was a fold or push scenario.

Where these pushes good or too aggresive?

[RLilley]

You're so short-stacked. I like the play.

Yeah, every time you're super "short stacked", go all in with marginal hands when you have 11-14 BBs.

No. These are bad. Either throw in a standard raise or fold.

If you lose 150 chips and think you're short stacked when the blinds are 25/50, you really really really have no patience and might as well quit poker.

[Olback]

I should mention that the blinds are going up in both cases in less then 5 hands.

Also making it 150 or 200 to go is crazy. I need chips before the blinds go up and what happens if overcards come on the flop?

[ QUOTE ]
I should mention that the blinds are going up in both cases in less then 5 hands.

Also making it 150 or 200 to go is crazy. I need chips before the blinds go up and what happens if overcards come on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, in the first hand, I would've just raised, and then folded when 2 people pushed.

In the second hand, I would either limp or fold, as it is still level 3 and there are 4 still left to act.

Both pushes are completly rediculous and out of line. blinds r only 25/50, adding 75 chips to ur stack does very little for your positoin in the toruney. also, your hands are very weak, and there are many players left to act. you coudl call with the 8's and play postflop, but much the 6's.

Call me tight, but I always fold both hands here without feeling weak in the slightest. In each situation you have four people left to act behind you. OOP with ~13BB's at Level 3, your stack isn't deep enough to limp in with a medium pocket pair to play it for set value. I also don't like raising a quarter of my stack with a good chance that I'll be facing overcards on the flop.

[Olback]

I agree that this is a push/fold situation but i think that in both cases folding is weak. I figure with the blinds come arounds soon and the blinds increasing soon that i need chips now. Yes there is a chance someone will wake up with a monster but i have been playing tight and hopefully that will not happen.

Is this skewed logic?

What hands would people need in this case to push?

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that this is a push/fold situation but i think that in both cases folding is weak. I figure with the blinds come arounds soon and the blinds increasing soon that i need chips now.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're pushing to gain 125 and 75 chips respectively, if you manage to steal the blinds. When they go up next level this won't be very significant in the outcome of the tournament for you. Most of the time you're called here, your hand is either dominated or you're flipping a coin. For me, its not worth the risk that early. I'd rather be patient.

I ran both hands through SNGPT. Assuming the players yet to act all have a loose calling range of 44+ A7s+ A9o+ KJs+ its still just less than +0.5% EV. I'd rather just fold and pick a better spot rather than risk busting out.

[bennies]

Hmmm, I agree with the other posters that the second hand is a clear fold.

The first hand is very close though, you're CO with a weak limper, t125 would help your 655 stack nicely. Also, if called, 88 will often be in a coin flip here, and that's fine. I like it.

[Taraz]

Hand 1 seems about right. Especially since you have the limper pegged as weak.

Hand 2 has gotta be a fold though. 75 chips just isn't that much and there is bound to be a better spot later. 66 is a pretty weak hand.

[derdo]

Another argument for the first push is that since there is a limper, the players behind you will be less inclined to call due to the risk of limper calling after them. I think it is a good push.
I would fold the second hand.

[psyduck]

1st one is definitely good. 88 with one limper is too much or an opportunity to pass up.

2nd one is a little closer, but I'd opt to fold it.

The thing about these hands is that they're both in MP. If you were in the CO/button and saw the rest of the table fold, then these would become auto-pushes (yes, even with your 12 BB stack). But in UTG+2 or whatever, there's too much of a risk you're taking to win the blinds.

[BadMongo]

Pushing the first hand is risky, but I like it and would proabably play it the same way. t125 is a significant amount of chips relative to your stack, and taking a coinflip isn't horrible at this point. Given that the blinds are going up soon, I think folding is giving up too much EV. Limping and making a standard raise to ~200 are both out of the question.

The second hand is terrible. You have 13BBs, and are pushing with 4 people yet to act behind you. You need a lot more than 66 for this to be correct, especially considering the loose calling stansards at the 22s. Just muck the hand.

[Chaostracize]

Make a standard raise with both hands and play accordingly. You still have an ok stack, don't get that desperate yet. T175 is good for hand 1, T150 is good for hand 2. Fold to excess action. If 158 overs come on the flop, so be it; play postflop poker.

definitely neither one of the hands are all in situations. Raise....try and see a flop hope to catch a set and trap someone. Otherwise you can fold without hesitation, in both situations. Medium pairs like this shouldn't be overplayed like this cause usually if you get called your behind, except for the rare instances. Most times your behind if someone calls though

[mlagoo]

First hand looks good.

Second hand could be a fold, or even a limp/fold. I don't think you are necessarily in push/fold territory here. But I also hate making a raise with your stack with 66 from EP if its not a push. I probably limp here some of the time, and just fold it some of the time.