Capping the flop with the nut flush draw? (boring)

[paperboyNC]

How many of you play this hand this way?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

[W. Deranged]

Boring.

How else do you play it? You've got plenty of equity three-handed. Cap is probably for value and may buy you a free card. You're As and K's are good here a whole bunch of the time.

Nice hand.

[jason_t]

Perfect.

[villainy]

As long as you have two for the ride it can hardly be wrong.
BoRiNg

[ebranig]

[ QUOTE ]
You're As and K's are good here a whole bunch of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you not see that UTG limp/reraised us here? I am not comfortable with my ace or king outs.

Reads would be helpful from OP. (ie. is BB a total donk or could he be sitting on a set here?)

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're As and K's are good here a whole bunch of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you not see that UTG limp/reraised us here? I am not comfortable with my ace or king outs.

Reads would be helpful from OP. (ie. is BB a total donk or could he be sitting on a set here?)

[/ QUOTE ]

A'ight... so maybe they're not that good. They don't have to be. Whatever. It's all gravy, baby.

[paperboyNC]

[ QUOTE ]
Reads would be helpful from OP. (ie. is BB a total donk or could he be sitting on a set here?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Read on UTG

UTG joined the table after I sat down. He bought in short at 132.50 (telling me it's his whole account balance). He posted BB as the CO on his first hand. He did show down a limp re-raise once and showed J/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Though he check-called when he missed the flop. His VPIP was 64%.

Read on BB

BB a donk. He had a stat of 54% VPIP. He started the hand shortstacked with $61.19 that seemed to be all he had. Here is a good example of his donkish-ness. He is the <font color="red">small blind</font> in this hand:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif. UTG posts a blind of $4.
UTG (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.16 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, Button checks.

River: (2.16 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB calls, Hero folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 4.16 BB

Results below:
SB has 6c 9h (one pair, jacks). <font color="red"> Why did he call the river with nine high?</font>
Button has Ah 6s (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: Button wins 4.16 BB.

[ebranig]

This is why reads are soooo important to playing hands.

With no reads I think capping is a clear mistake, with these in mind though, it's not terrible.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
This is why reads are soooo important to playing hands.

With no reads I think capping is a clear mistake, with these in mind though, it's not terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Capping can never be a mistake, even with reads.

Note, if we have a tight read on villain, it means he's probably not that likely to be limp reraising JJ or another hand that hit a set here. Hence, our flush outs are more pure on the flop. So we cap the flop for value.

If we have a loose/aggro read on villain, he's more likely to have a set on the flop, but we're also more likely to have clean A and K outs. So we cap the flop for value.

If you're talking about pre-flop the cap is good because often the limp reraise is with suited connectors or trash, and there are other players involved who likely have trash that we are thrashing.

[paperboyNC]

[ QUOTE ]
This is why reads are soooo important to playing hands.

With no reads I think capping is a clear mistake, with these in mind though, it's not terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with W. Deranged. Capping is never a mistake here.

[jskills]

Capping makes sense when you've got more than one opponent. Period. The more involved, the more sense it makes.

Reads mean nothing, since you're seeing the river no matter.

[Dagger78]

If you've seen UTG limp-RR before, this is prefect. You're Aces and Kings are good enough to give you the equity need to cap this flop. I'd play it the same.

[TaintedRogue]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you not see that UTG limp/reraised us here? I am not comfortable with my ace or king outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither am I. I believe the clubs are your only outs.

[ QUOTE ]
Reads would be helpful from OP. (ie. is BB a total donk or could he be sitting on a set here?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe you are right on, unless he also has clubs.

[TaintedRogue]

[ QUOTE ]
This is why reads are soooo important to playing hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
With the players playing this bad, I believe "reads" go out the window as being worthless.

[ QUOTE ]
With no reads I think capping is a clear mistake, with these in mind though, it's not terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe he has a read. The player who open-limped UTG and then re-raised. If he doesn't have AA, then it's AK

[paperboyNC]

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Neither am I. I believe the clubs are your only outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you read my post with reads? /images/graemlins/smile.gif The only time he showed down a limp/re-raise he had AJo.

[setzf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reads would be helpful from OP. (ie. is BB a total donk or could he be sitting on a set here?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Read on UTG

UTG joined the table after I sat down. He bought in short at 132.50 (telling me it's his whole account balance). He posted BB as the CO on his first hand. He did show down a limp re-raise once and showed J/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Though he check-called when he missed the flop. His VPIP was 64%.

Read on BB

BB a donk. He had a stat of 54% VPIP. He started the hand shortstacked with $61.19 that seemed to be all he had. Here is a good example of his donkish-ness. He is the <font color="red">small blind</font> in this hand:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif. UTG posts a blind of $4.
UTG (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.16 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, Button checks.

River: (2.16 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB calls, Hero folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 4.16 BB

Results below:
SB has 6c 9h (one pair, jacks). <font color="red"> Why did he call the river with nine high?</font>
Button has Ah 6s (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: Button wins 4.16 BB.

[/ QUOTE ]
Im curious why you didn't bet the turn here.

[paperboyNC]

[ QUOTE ]
Im curious why you didn't bet the turn here.

[/ QUOTE ]

With a 2BB pot, it's not profitable to bet 1BB here. If anyone had a 7 or a J, they weren't likely to bet them on the flop, but they may call or raise here.

Thinking players might bluff-raise forcing me to fold and I don't even have position to take a free showdown. Let's say someone with AJ calls. I check the river and he bets. Then what?

I probably would have called the river had the SB not called.

[TaintedRogue]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're talking about pre-flop the cap is good because often the limp reraise is with suited connectors or trash, and there are other players involved who likely have trash that we are thrashing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with everything you said in your post except this. I find it hard to believe (as I can't remember seeing, first hand, a player re-raise EP with suited connectors preflop, much less trash.)that UTG re-raised preflop with KQs against only two opponents. Unless, the players are so bad, he figures they either have Ax, with x being less than a Q, or he has two overcards to whatever they have.
Isn't he just reducing his implied odds by re-raising preflop? Now, Hero just recently arrived at the game, so it could be that he considers him as nothing but another fish.

[TaintedRogue]

[ QUOTE ]
Im curious why you didn't bet the turn here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe, that in situations like this, you make more money ck/calling with weak hands like this, then getting out of line. It accomplishes a lot more, even if you don't win the hand. I would have called the river for the purpose of declaring what I called the river with, not with the expectation of winning.

[TaintedRogue]

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Neither am I. I believe the clubs are your only outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you read my post with reads? /images/graemlins/smile.gif The only time he showed down a limp/re-raise he had AJo.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I did not read that post before replying. You were in a very juicy game. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[paperboyNC]

[ QUOTE ]
No, I did not read that post before replying. You were in a very juicy game. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The BB on this hand had T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif and stayed 'til showdown on that flop of J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. LOL

Gotta love the juicy Friday night tables.

[TaintedRogue]

Yes! We have one here in my area. 2 orbits of Hold Em and 1 orbit of Omaha (high only). When you have 4-6 players, in an eleven handed game, who chase 4 outers without sufficient pot odds, you have to luv em when they glow in their excitement of making their hand. I try to make it a point to congragulate them. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[setzf]

thanks for the reply, i ask becuase i think this might be a leak in my game, that is fighting for small pots out of position with just a small pair.