Ethics of taking chips off table

[coolhandsun]

This may be a misplaced post...but this occured on the ubet 50/100 nl table. This guy smallfortune bought in for about 3k, won about 7k to walk away with 10k. He was playing with Mahatma....not sure of all the details cause I started watching after it had been going for a while. So he leaves the table and immediately goes back with 3k....thereby pocketing the 7k profit. When he came back Mahatma went on a 10 minute tirade about how the guy was a scumbag, a cheat, an angle shooter. Smallfortune's response is he didn't know it was against the rules to take chips off the table. He said it was a lot of money and didn't want to lose it all. Mahatma responds he should play a lower level, to which the guy replies he wanted to play mahatma and mahatma only plays 50/100.

I am relatively new to nl poker, and don't railbird much. But is there some rule or ethics involved in taking chips off the table? i mean, this was some small shooter who was taking a stab at a big time player but wanted to keep his risk in check. And here was the one guy he wanted to play railing on him as if he'd spit on his mom. Any thoughts?

Gavin Sun

[yvesaint]

If I'm not mistaken, someone well-known (Ivey?) did this to Matusow once, bought in 20k, doubled up, then left, and he got really pissed. I thought it was the funniest thing in the world.

[okayplayer]

I think it's pretty bitch made when people buy in short and then leave after doubling up and coming back with another short buy. People on PP do this all the time, and I think they should put in some type of "rule" that prevents this. i.e., they have to re-buy with the same amount as they left with if it's within a reasonable amount of time (~an hour or 2). I believe Stars has this feature.

[coolhandsun]

What if its max 10k buy in, he originally bought in for 3k and cashes out for 20k, and comes right back with 10k. Would this be allowed? Mahatma said something about it being a glitch in heads up.

[Wu36]

They don't allow this on stars.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
What if its max 10k buy in, he originally bought in for 3k and cashes out for 20k, and comes right back with 10k. Would this be allowed? Mahatma said something about it being a glitch in heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]

UB has this rule but it can be worked around

I would have done this only because Mahatma was the other player. He is the Phil Hellmuth of the online poker world. He thinks he's gods gift to online poker. Basically, he is the biggest crybaby in the world. Although, it was pretty funny watching him take 50k off of Matusow yesterday on FullTilt. Only Matusow has a bigger ego and kept reloading.
I don't have a problem with people taking chips off the table. I think it should be their choice. If Prahlad has 30K, you start with five, double up to ten, take the five off, you can only double up another five. If you keep then ten, you can turn it into twenty. But it's your choice. Some people prefer to play cash games short-stacked for strategical reasons.

[fsuplayer]

i get pretty annoyed when people do it to me, but i understand why they are doing it.

going nuts and berating them is a bit silly though.

[Marnixvdb]

[ QUOTE ]
What if its max 10k buy in, he originally bought in for 3k and cashes out for 20k, and comes right back with 10k. Would this be allowed? Mahatma said something about it being a glitch in heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]

On Ultimate Bet, if there are more people seated you have to return with the amount you left with, or more, if you return soon after leaving.

When it's HU, and one of the two leaves and comes back, UB sees this as a new table that's starting so you can sit again with any amount you wish.

There are also other ways of working around it, but even though it is not always strictly against the rules of the site, it is considered bad form to do so. Obviously Mahatma could have refused to give the guy anymore action if he was really bothered by him taking chips off the table.

Marnix

[-Skeme-]

It's called ratholing.

[Header]

This is not allowed on the cryptos either

fwiw some poker rooms allow you to take chips of the table between hands, so I don't see how there should be any objective ethics involved here, basically if the software lets you do it, it's ok

[fsuplayer]

no, they dont.

i have been to rooms in many parts of the country, and taking chips off the table is a big no no.

[captZEEbo1]

IMO Mahatma getting mad at a player like this is really dumb. Mahatma almost surely has an edge vs this player that's taking a gamble, and he should do everything to encourage that guy to stay. Getting mad when people who take a shot leaves is dumb. They are forgetting all the times when idiots take shots and just lose the money. I can see why Mahatma thinks it's unethical, but that's stupid. Ethics shmethics, if you think you have an edge vs some opponent, and nobody else is there to play, keep him there as long as possible. It goes under the same principle as if some total n00b sat at the big game, a good poker player SHOULDN'T get pissed at him for doing a hit and run, they shouldn't be mad at him for some technicality (eg. string bet), they should encourage him to play as much as possible. If he hits and runs, they shouldn't berate him for bad ethics, they should say "Look how easy that was! Any time you are looking for a nice and quick score come back."

[mustmuck]

I didn't see most of it, but it looked like he must have lost well over 100k on Prima last night. So he may have just been generally annoyed.

[ QUOTE ]
no, they dont.

i have been to rooms in many parts of the country, and taking chips off the table is a big no no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rumours exist there are parts of the Universe outside of the United States

"Provided you have the minimum buy-in on the table, you are permitted to remove any excess chips in between a round of play."

linky (http://www.starcity.com.au/dir013/internetpublishing.nsf/Content/Poker)

(quote near bottom of web page)

edit: ok my sarcasm was probably not warrented, ignore that please

[okayplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no, they dont.

i have been to rooms in many parts of the country, and taking chips off the table is a big no no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rumours exist there are parts of the Universe outside of the United States

"Provided you have the minimum buy-in on the table, you are permitted to remove any excess chips in between a round of play."

linky (http://www.starcity.com.au/dir013/internetpublishing.nsf/Content/Poker)

(quote near bottom of web page)

edit: ok my sarcasm was probably not warrented, ignore that please

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it funny you left this next sentence out of your quote:
"However, Poker players consider the removal of chips bad etiquette as is deliberately hiding chips on the table from other player's view."

Honestly I didn't see that when I first copied and pasted, and I happen to think it's bad etiquette, but we're talking about ethics here