yuk, i really am unsure about this one

[El Tigre]

FullTiltPoker Game #205029607: Table Hampton - $0.25/$0.50 -Limit Hold'em - 18:41:57 ET - 2005/09/02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero in BB [Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif]
2 folds
Villain in MP1 raises
MP2 calls
MP3 calls
CO calls
2 folds
Hero calls
Okay the questions start here. In the big blind so it costs me a SB and im gettin about 9.5 to 1. Call here out of position, or just move on to the next hand?
*** FLOP *** [K /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif]
Hero checks
Villain bets
3 folds
Hero calls

I really like this flop, as I have a flush draw, but wait the board is paired. I can't try for a free card because I am out of position, but is call the right play. It felt weird. Maybe it's just me but is anything wrong here on the flop?
*** TURN *** [K /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif] [2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
Hero checks
Villain bets
Hero calls

Standard?
*** RIVER *** [K /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif] [Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif]
Hero checks
Villain checks

Standard from the flop right?

I remember from SSHE that you should play from the BB against a raise all those hands that you would play for one bet from late position. Q5s is not on my list for that. The hand is mediocre. You have more or less the suitedness going for you. It has little high card value, because of the poor kicker. No straight value at all. And even your suitedness might be expensive, because you are easily dominated. Though it's not that bad. So I would have let go of the hand unless the PFR is a maniac, but you didn't provide any reads.

Postflop is not too bad, I think. The board is paired, yes. That makes a full house or quads possible so your flush might not be good. But normally you dont raise a hand preflop with a 8 in it so he would need to have KK on the flop to really scare you. I might have bet on the flop to see if he raises. It's not too expensive there and it gives you a better picture of how strong he thinks he is.

Then chasing the flush was ok. His river check startles me a little. Maybe he had AcJc and was chasing the same flush as you did. Maybe you were lucky and have outdrawn him. But you shouldn't play too many hands like these, because of the threat of domination.

Regards.

I'm new at this too...

I would fold preflop. I believe you're getting 8.5:2, am I right?

I don't like the hand. Now that you've got a flush draw, you gotta see the river.

Dang! A queen! I rather it had been a rag... I'd call it grinding my teeth.

[aK13]

Looks good.

Unless he's aggro enough to bet JJ/TT/99 on the river, I fold to a river bet, since there's not a lot you're beating on the river.

[HollywoodDB]

huh. I guess I call preflop here. I also bet the flop. I have good equity with 4 people in. I doubt he has an 8. If he has KK, nice hand sir.

...or am I way off?

[Swax]

I like the preflop call - if I recall there's a passage in SSHE that says you can call one raise liberally with suited cards in the BB - you're getting odds to flop the flush draw I think. I don't think that you can worry too much about suited domination.

Anyone like betting out the flop?

[PokerBob]

perfect

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
But you shouldn't play too many hands like these, because of the threat of domination

[/ QUOTE ]

um its 5handed, domination isn't a big issue, since you are mainly playing for flushes and 2pr/trips or better .. and you are getting good odds preflop, since you flop 4flushes about 10% of the time, and they pay for themselves .. through in some 2pair and trips flops, and the occasion OESD and its a very easy preflop call

postflop was good.

[tyler_cracker]

I really dislike betting the flop (as some have suggested), because villain is probably going to raise here, like, all the time and drive out all the callers we want to subsidize our flush draw.

If the limpers had called, then go for a check-raise. You probably have an equity edge and benefit from the extra money going into the pot, and Villain may fear that you have an 8 and slow down.

I would probably fold preflop, but it's close. The rest of the hand is good.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
huh. I guess I call preflop here. I also bet the flop. I have good equity with 4 people in. I doubt he has an 8. If he has KK, nice hand sir.

...or am I way off?

[/ QUOTE ]

um yes you are way off, betting this flop blows, look at the position of the PFR, he's directly to your left you betting causes him to frequently raise, driving out other players killing your equity edge you have if 5ppl stay in .. if you had flopped 2pair, betting out makes sense since you want to get it HU with him, and like driving out ppl, especially if there are gutshot draws

I hope the "If he has KK, nh sir" means a pair of kings, like AK, or KJ and not KK in the hole or you have some MUBS issues

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold preflop. I believe you're getting 8.5:2, am I right?

I don't like the hand. Now that you've got a flush draw, you gotta see the river.

Dang! A queen! I rather it had been a rag... I'd call it grinding my teeth.



[/ QUOTE ]

hero is in the BB, he has 1SB in the pot, and it costs him 1SB to see a flop, he's closing the action as well, you need to call here

why on earth would you rather have a rag on the river than a Q, that could let you beat say JJ, or TT is totally beyond me .. um its a big pot, I don't care if its pairing a Q that lets me win it, or hitting the FD that lets me hit it, but I want to win it .. that said you aren't good on the river here too often.

[Swax]

yep you're right - I don't know what I was thinking. Betting the flop does suck.

just as a hypothetical - if the players in between hero and the preflop raiser had called, does hero raise? if the board wasn't paired the raise would be a no brainer, but with a paired board is a raise automatic? sorry if this is a little off-topic but I'm curious.

[DCWildcat]

This a very easy call preflop IMO.

[magates]

[ QUOTE ]
yep you're right - I don't know what I was thinking. Betting the flop does suck.

just as a hypothetical - if the players in between hero and the preflop raiser had called, does hero raise? if the board wasn't paired the raise would be a no brainer, but with a paired board is a raise automatic? sorry if this is a little off-topic but I'm curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

If a couple of people had called villains bet on the flop I would have raised regardless of the pair on the board, but I don't really know what I'm doing so . . . .

[HollywoodDB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
huh. I guess I call preflop here. I also bet the flop. I have good equity with 4 people in. I doubt he has an 8. If he has KK, nice hand sir.

...or am I way off?

[/ QUOTE ]

um yes you are way off, betting this flop blows, look at the position of the PFR, he's directly to your left you betting causes him to frequently raise, driving out other players killing your equity edge you have if 5ppl stay in .. if you had flopped 2pair, betting out makes sense since you want to get it HU with him, and like driving out ppl, especially if there are gutshot draws

I hope the "If he has KK, nh sir" means a pair of kings, like AK, or KJ and not KK in the hole or you have some MUBS issues



[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I am way, way off. I never thought of position of PFR. Damn, I learned something and probably filled a huge hole in my game. Well said, thanks.

You mean on the flop? As far as I count, it's 9handed preflop (2 folds, MP1, MP2, MP3, CO, 2 Folds (Button, SB), Hero (BB)) and then you should select your starting hands considering the possibility of domination later in the hand, don't you?

Regards