Where do you stop it?

[kapw7]

Having some Friday night fun 4-tabling-clearing the Party bonus at 1/2 -6max.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Not any reads. Seems like the average loose 1/2-6max player

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (2.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

I try to steal 30% of times or beter whenever I feel like it.

Turn: (2.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

Lets see if we get raised here

River: (4.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>

There's no other option on the river

[irishpint]

party bonus? explain....

First, let me say I know nothing.

Second: Check/fold the flop. What are you trying to steal, 1 SB? Raise pre-flop if you want to steal. Given your flop move, check/fold the turn.

If you're trying to advertise for later hands, isn't that an unneeded move at $1/$2 6-max? I can fold a bazillion hands in a row at $2/$4 &amp; $3/$6 and still earn tons of action.

[Kumubou]

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Not any reads. Seems like the average loose 1/2-6max player

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Stop bluffing at calling stations!

I check/fold this flop. When you pull this kind of stunt, you want something that has at least some marginal showdown value. A weak draw, or A-high, something. You have piddly squat, no draws, and no showdown value. If he calls with anything (and he will!), you lose.

-K

What did you start? A hand as weak as yours has very little value and is not worth much. Bluffing is done at the end if he shows no strength. If you were inducing a bluff representing a 9, then you would check, if a blank hits the turn and he bets, raise and see if that make him fold. If not, you are done.

[kapw7]

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Not any reads. Seems like the average loose 1/2-6max player

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Stop bluffing at calling stations!


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As you see thats not entirely true

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When you pull this kind of stunt, you want something that has at least some marginal showdown value. A weak draw, or A-high, something. You have piddly squat, no draws, and no showdown value.

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Not true. I try to make him fold. What I have is irrelevant

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If he calls with anything (and he will!), you lose.

-K

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Even LPPs don't call with anything on a scary board and after limping UTG

[kapw7]

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If you were inducing a bluff representing a 9, then you would check, if a blank hits the turn and he bets, raise and see if that make him fold. If not, you are done.

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My play loses 1+2+2=5SB when behind and can win 2.5+1+2=5.5SB

Your play loses 2*2+2=6SB (youll bet the river-right?) and wins 2.5+2=4.5SB or 6.5SB if you get him on the river

[deception5]

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My play loses 1+2+2=5SB when behind and can win 2.5+1+2=5.5SB

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I don't think he folds 50% of the time here. At some point you need to abandon the bluff, the more times he calls the more likely he's going to showdown.

[kapw7]

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My play loses 1+2+2=5SB when behind and can win 2.5+1+2=5.5SB

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I don't think he folds 50% of the time here. At some point you need to abandon the bluff, the more times he calls the more likely he's going to showdown.

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What about the extra money I make when I actually have the 9?
I said I bet the flop 30% of times or anyway a lot less than 100%.

Last time I played a decent guy who capped me on a Jxx flop with AJ and after I C-Red him with my Jx (full-house) and he eventually lost the hand he said: "I thought you were a donk".

But the main question is where do you abandon the bluff? Especially when the pot grows and he doesn't seem to have a decent showdown hand after he limped UTG. You can't stop on the river. On the turn maybe?

[deception5]

I wouldn't worry too much about building a reputation at 1/2, it generally costs more than you'll gain from it.

I don't mind taking a stab at the pot on the flop but there's no way I would put in bets on every street. If I didn't check/fold the turn I would bet the turn and check/fold the river (if he peels one often) or check the turn and bet the river (if he sees the river and folds when he misses).

Problem is, he actually might have a little something and you won't scare him out of the pot. Moreover, he might be using PA that shows your mucked cards immediatly and then he can see, that you badly tried to bluff him into something. Latest point to stop here was after he called the turn bet, IMO. He didn't believe you. That's just it. So give it up early enough. Why should he fold to the river bet after calling so much? That's the way calling-stations are likely to think.

Regards.

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he doesn't seem to have a decent showdown hand after he limped UTG.

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I think you are putting too much emphasis on this simple fact. Yesterday I raised flop from the CO with AQo, had to abandon it on the flop and someone won with a freak fullhouse that he filled on the turn and river with 84o from UTG or something. Then he actually posted in the chat-window: "You see? That's why it's silly to raise pre-flop."
People call down with TPTK and straights. Why do you think he has no hand at all? Despite it is 6max, he might even choose to limp with a small PP.
I don't understand why you are so confident about that. Especially without reads.

Regards

[kapw7]

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Problem is, he actually might have a little something and you won't scare him out of the pot. Moreover, he might be using PA that shows your mucked cards immediatly and then he can see, that you badly tried to bluff him into something. Latest point to stop here was after he called the turn bet, IMO. He didn't believe you. That's just it. So give it up early enough. Why should he fold to the river bet after calling so much? That's the way calling-stations are likely to think.

Regards.

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He can't see mucked cards if he folds.

Betting the river is essential:
1) He didn't show any strength so it is more likely he's on a draw (flush, overcardsetc) and plans to fold UI.
2) There is no way to take the pot without betting (unless he has 43)
3) You need to be successful 1 out of 5 times

[WildDan]

I'm just wondering why you ask a question when you make a post then shoot down everyone with your own theory when they disagree with the line you took?

Seriously, if you're convinced you did the right thing and don't want to hear that this pure bluff might not have been correct, don't post it.

[Aaron W.]

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Not any reads. Seems like the average loose 1/2-6max player

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Steal *AFTER* you get the read.

[kapw7]

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I'm just wondering why you ask a question when you make a post then shoot down everyone with your own theory when they disagree with the line you took?

Seriously, if you're convinced you did the right thing and don't want to hear that this pure bluff might not have been correct, don't post it.

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Who the hell are you?
I'm not shooting down anyone. This is a forum and Im trying to have a discussion. If you have something useful to contribute please go ahead. If you only have nonsense then please find another forum

[RatFink]

A steal would more likely be to check-raise the flop, or lead the turn if he checks behind on flop. This looks like a weak flush draw that you played badly and I'd call you down with just about any hand i'd limp UTG.

[Aaron W.]

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A steal would more likely be to check-raise the flop, or lead the turn if he checks behind on flop. This looks like a weak flush draw that you played badly and I'd call you down with just about any hand i'd limp UTG.

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Open-limping at 6-max? /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[hemstock]

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A steal would more likely be to check-raise the flop, or lead the turn if he checks behind on flop. This looks like a weak flush draw that you played badly and I'd call you down with just about any hand i'd limp UTG.

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Open-limping at 6-max? /images/graemlins/frown.gif

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That's bad isnt it? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Sightless]

This is purely read dependent, no stats on PT will give u the right numbers to come up with the right answer...


It's all about how you fee about the player

[Paxosmotic]

Check/fold as soon as possible in this hand. I don't know why you feel entitled to a 2.5sb pot because there's only one limper to your blind, but christ, you have 5 high. Check the flop, hope he bets, and if he doesn't, check the turn so he gets the hint.

[bottomset]

I'd consider the flop bet, and thats about it against an unknown

I'd need a read on the player letting go often postflop to try this sorta pure bluff

generally you only purebluff(W$SD=0 if called) when all the cards are out, against players that frequently make terrible calls, you end up throwing in a bunch of bets with nothing, and no outs .. firing 3barrels like this seems like terrible spewage

it may work on occasion, but it needs to work very often for this to be good. 1/2 donks calldown way too much, thats why its a good game, not because you can push them off something w/ 5high

[Aaron W.]

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A steal would more likely be to check-raise the flop, or lead the turn if he checks behind on flop. This looks like a weak flush draw that you played badly and I'd call you down with just about any hand i'd limp UTG.

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Open-limping at 6-max? /images/graemlins/frown.gif

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That's bad isnt it? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

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It's bad like open-limping 3 off the button.

It's true that you win when he folds. But I wouldn't base a poker-theory one that sole fact. I think just as he didn't show any strength, he didn't really show any weakness either. Actually, you did not really give him a chance to show strength or weakness. Maybe you should have at least checked the turn so you can watch if he checks behind you or bets. Many people just don't seem to like raising. And your bluff would have been a little bit more impressive after the high card came, especially if he has nothing in his hand at all. This way you didn't make it difficult once for a calling-station or any other passiv player.

Regards.

[kapw7]

I am confident about my flop play (however not sure how frequently to bet - 30%, 50%?) and my river play. I play the same at 3/6. The turn bet looks donk-y but I feel that if I don't get raised there I can steal the pot on the river.
I wish I had reads but I was 4-tabling,, drinking and didn't really care.

[bottomset]

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I am confident about my flop play (however not sure how frequently to bet - 30%, 50%?) and my river play. I play the same at 3/6. The turn bet looks donk-y but I feel that if I don't get raised there I can steal the pot on the river.
I wish I had reads but I was 4-tabling,, drinking and didn't really care.

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the player base at 3/6 is too varied to 3barrel bluff with 5high nodraw without reads

I doubt this is profitable at either level. 50% success rate is damn high

[kapw7]

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I am confident about my flop play (however not sure how frequently to bet - 30%, 50%?) and my river play. I play the same at 3/6. The turn bet looks donk-y but I feel that if I don't get raised there I can steal the pot on the river.
I wish I had reads but I was 4-tabling,, drinking and didn't really care.

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the player base at 3/6 is too varied to 3barrel bluff with 5high nodraw without reads

I doubt this is profitable at either level. 50% success rate is damn high

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I have this big complaint in the 2p2 forum:
My posts are too often misread.
I can blame my poor English for 1 thing but is it only that?

I tried to say that I am confident about flop and river play but not the turn. So no. I wouldn't 3-barrel.

[bottomset]

to get to the river in a position to steal, you need to fire on the turn

if you bet the flop, check the turn .. he'll bet a lot, and if he checks .. you might be able to pick it up on the river, but it still needs to work a ton of the time

I still think its a bad idea at 1/2 where people call too much, with too little but everything beats you this time, you make money by betting good hands, and occasion well timed bluffs .. this just seems like reckless spewing

at 3/6 you get raised more often, and they bluffraise more too, so you get forced off this type of line too often