View Full Version : 3rd barrel
5 handed 10/20. ABC UTG limps, aggressive CO limps, I limp on the button with 9d 7d, blinds come along. 5 players, 5 SBs.
Flop is Qc Qd Jh. Checked to me, I bet, folded to the CO who genuinely hesitates and calls.
Turn is the 5h. CO checks, I bet, CO quickly calls, and I decide to bet the river unimproved and check if I catch a pair. Good?
No if you are going to bet the river you must bet it no matter what card comes. Dunno about limp and dunno about trying to bluff in first place multiway pot.
Edit: I mean if you would bluff the pot you should bet also 97 because those are very likely outs.
Entity
09-02-2005, 11:18 AM
I'd check behind on a /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Rob
thejameser
09-02-2005, 11:41 AM
is it just me or is it hugely dependent on CO's tendencies such as WTSD%, etc. obviously without a pair fold equity is all you have, and that would be a function of your HU opponent's tendencies here. you check to raise i imagine. marginally good, i think. but i suck.
I think I like it.
I also check behind a heart as well.
Ive used (correct me if Im wrong) the same thought process before. By the time we get to the turn, its looking like hes drawing. When you miss, betting is the only way to get the pot (Im thinking gutshot with hearts or something at this point) because he'll fold the K or T, if you catch your pair you jump ahead anyway.
jason_t
09-02-2005, 12:16 PM
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you check to raise i imagine.
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sfer is Button.
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No if you are going to bet the river you must bet it no matter what card comes. Dunno about limp and dunno about trying to bluff in first place multiway pot.
Edit: I mean if you would bluff the pot you should bet also 97 because those are very likely outs.
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I disagree. ABC checks, hes got nothing. Agg sees three checks in front of him and still doesnt make a move; Im not giving him credit for a hand. This combined with the nature of the board makes for a pretty good bluff against 4 people.
Going to the river, I dont like betting regardless of what comes. Sure, your 7's and 9's are likely outs, but what is he calling with here after you bet that you could possibly beat? His physical action and play has said "Im drawing". Theres no need to open yourself up to a frisky checkraise (possibly bluff which would be awful) when your hand has legitamate showdown value. Now if you miss the 7 or 9 youre folding his better hands (I think stuff like K9hh and T8hh are very possible) and you can safely fold to a raise.
By the way, be gentle tearing apart everything I say these are my first two posts.
thejameser
09-02-2005, 02:23 PM
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you check to raise i imagine.
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sfer is Button.
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doesn't everyone checkraise on the button? /images/graemlins/wink.gif
mcvalenc
09-02-2005, 03:01 PM
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I'd check behind on a /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Rob
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DrSavage
09-02-2005, 03:21 PM
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I'd check behind on a /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Rob
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/images/graemlins/heart.gif is a must bet.
Jdanz
09-02-2005, 04:04 PM
agreed.
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I'd check behind on a /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Rob
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/images/graemlins/heart.gif is a must bet.
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I'll bite. Why? Because we've been betting a BDFD the whole way? Because Villain is expected to be more intimidated by the 3rd /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the river after our action in this hand and he will be more likely to lay down a winner on the chance that he thinks "well, I had showdown value until the BDFD got there? Because he played his hand like a draw and one of the two legitimate draws just got there? I don't get it.
DrSavage
09-02-2005, 04:36 PM
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I'll bite. Why? Because we've been betting a BDFD the whole way? Because Villain is expected to be more intimidated by the 3rd /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the river after our action in this hand and he will be more likely to lay down a winner on the chance that he thinks "well, I had showdown value until the BDFD got there? Because he played his hand like a draw and one of the two legitimate draws just got there? I don't get it.
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My post didn't work out the same exact way as the thing i had in mind, so I'll rephrase : i don't see less reason to bet on a /images/graemlins/heart.gif river than on any other.
Alobar
09-02-2005, 04:40 PM
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I'll bite. Why? Because we've been betting a BDFD the whole way? Because Villain is expected to be more intimidated by the 3rd /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the river after our action in this hand and he will be more likely to lay down a winner on the chance that he thinks "well, I had showdown value until the BDFD got there? Because he played his hand like a draw and one of the two legitimate draws just got there? I don't get it.
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My post didn't work out the same exact way as the thing i had in mind, so I'll rephrase : i don't see less reason to bet on a /images/graemlins/heart.gif river than on any other.
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because he hesitated on the flop, but quickyl called on the turn, one good reason for this is he picked up a flush draw
Entity
09-02-2005, 04:40 PM
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I'll bite. Why? Because we've been betting a BDFD the whole way? Because Villain is expected to be more intimidated by the 3rd /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the river after our action in this hand and he will be more likely to lay down a winner on the chance that he thinks "well, I had showdown value until the BDFD got there? Because he played his hand like a draw and one of the two legitimate draws just got there? I don't get it.
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My post didn't work out the same exact way as the thing i had in mind, so I'll rephrase : i don't see less reason to bet on a /images/graemlins/heart.gif river than on any other.
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The quick call on the turn looks a lot more like a /images/graemlins/heart.gif draw to me than it does a turned 5.
Rob
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I'll bite. Why? Because we've been betting a BDFD the whole way? Because Villain is expected to be more intimidated by the 3rd /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the river after our action in this hand and he will be more likely to lay down a winner on the chance that he thinks "well, I had showdown value until the BDFD got there? Because he played his hand like a draw and one of the two legitimate draws just got there? I don't get it.
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My post didn't work out the same exact way as the thing i had in mind, so I'll rephrase : i don't see less reason to bet on a /images/graemlins/heart.gif river than on any other.
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The quick call on the turn looks a lot more like a /images/graemlins/heart.gif draw to me than it does a turned 5.
Rob
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That's exactly what I thought and why I was confused why betting a /images/graemlins/heart.gif is a must when we have position. Seems our bluff bet lost a large chunk of the range against which it might be successful.
DrSavage
09-02-2005, 05:19 PM
Maybe he did pick up a draw or maybe he didn't. I'd still think this pot is worth one more barrel.
Entity
09-02-2005, 06:08 PM
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Maybe he did pick up a draw or maybe he didn't. I'd still think this pot is worth one more barrel.
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I don't think this pot is indiscriminately worth one more barrell.
Rob
MarkD
09-02-2005, 07:41 PM
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5 handed 10/20. ABC UTG limps, aggressive CO limps, I limp on the button with 9d 7d, blinds come along. 5 players, 5 SBs.
Flop is Qc Qd Jh. Checked to me, I bet, folded to the CO who genuinely hesitates and calls.
Turn is the 5h. CO checks, I bet, CO quickly calls, and I decide to bet the river unimproved and check if I catch a pair. Good?
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Well, I hate your flop bet here.
I´m not sure this flop bet is good in a 5-handed pot, but agree with others that he probably holds Axh or some gutshot or such with 2 hearts. He could have some crap pair too though.
River is a 7, non-heart, and the action goes check/check and MHIG. Villain flashed me T9o.
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I'd check behind on a /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Rob
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/images/graemlins/heart.gif is a must bet.
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If he checks a /images/graemlins/heart.gif, I agree.
sthief09
09-06-2005, 10:58 AM
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5 handed 10/20. ABC UTG limps, aggressive CO limps, I limp on the button with 9d 7d, blinds come along. 5 players, 5 SBs.
Flop is Qc Qd Jh. Checked to me, I bet, folded to the CO who genuinely hesitates and calls.
Turn is the 5h. CO checks, I bet, CO quickly calls, and I decide to bet the river unimproved and check if I catch a pair. Good?
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Well, I hate your flop bet here.
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me too, though this is live and people tend to fold more live. this is exactly the wrong board to bluff at
sthief09
09-06-2005, 11:00 AM
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River is a 7, non-heart, and the action goes check/check and MHIG. Villain flashed me T9o.
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well you won yourself a dinky pot worth barely more than you put in, but you lost your ability to bluff in the future
i dont really like the flop bet either... rest of hand looks ok.
you may have just earned some additional future calldowns....so it maybe a good thing.
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...but you lost your ability to bluff in the future
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You think this crowd thinks differently about me now?
sthief09
09-06-2005, 11:58 AM
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...but you lost your ability to bluff in the future
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You think this crowd thinks differently about me now?
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if they were regulars, then fine, but I still don't like it
I wonder how people view you. lucky LAG or "he must be doing something right because he takes my money every time he comes here, so I better avoid him"
also if you're going to blast through them like that, then why not raise preflop?
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I wonder how people view you. lucky LAG or "he must be doing something right because he takes my money every time he comes here, so I better avoid him"
also if you're going to blast through them like that, then why not raise preflop?
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Who's blasting? I bet two streets with the worst hand into a board that likely helped no one when they all checked to me. Suggesting I raise preflop is needlessly argumentative--this is cleary a hand that is all about board texture.
I've often wondered how these guys view us, especially since, despite how badly they tend to play and how easily we can exploit them, it's hard to characterize to others their tendencies.
BottlesOf
09-06-2005, 12:10 PM
I would not bet this flop at all. Given that you did, the turn bet and river bet on a heart or check behind on pair make sense.
sthief09
09-06-2005, 12:54 PM
my problems with the flop bet:
1. there's a chance someone is slowplaying trips
2. there is a chance someone checked a J fearing trips
3. there are lots of draws
4. if you get called most of the time you're done with the hand because of #1 and 2. if you didn't pick up that he was hesitating betting the turn is a bad idea. most people that call a QQJ board have something, and you're going to have to hope he has a draw AND doesn't hit it, and that requires you to fire both the turn and river. so if you don't take it down now, you're committing to put another 2 BB into a pot that's 2 BB currently, and will be 3.5 if he calls the turn and river. maybe this has less of an effect live since you know the people
5. people are suspicious of button bets, and along those lines, they know you like to bluff
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