AQ, TPTK HU vs TAG

[MrEngenic]

Look at all those abbreviations in the subject line! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Villain seems taggish and this is his first 3bet at the table. Is there a good reason to go to war on the flop and call down a raise or a 3bet if I checkraise? This line too passive? What can he possibly have that I beat on the river if he bets?


Party 2/4

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Folded to Hero, Hero raises, CO 3bets, blinds fold, Hero calls.

Flop:(7 sb) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls

Turn: (4.5 BB) 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls

River: (6.5BB) T /images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero ?

[invictus33]

TPTK is a great hand to have HU, why aren't you betting out the flop? The only way I check that flop is if I'm going for a c/r (which I wouldn't recommend here). Bet/call a raise on the flop and Bet/fold to a raise again on the turn. Make him define his hand.

The river T /images/graemlins/club.gif sucks so you might want to check/call there if you're putting him on the straight. Postflop play was pretty weak all the way around.

[MrEngenic]

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The river T sucks so you might want to check/call there if you're putting him on the straight. Postflop play was pretty weak all the way around.

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My hope was that he had 99 or AK, maybe AJ or KQ but I didn't think he would 3bet with AJ or KQ.

[Evan]

Any line that involves folding this hand is not the way to go.

[invictus33]

I'd only fold this to multiple raises when I've got a read on him as being a rock. Against an unknown I'm showing this down.

[Petteri]

I do not like your line you took.

I think there are 2 good lines.
1. Lead out betting flop and 3-bet if villain raises.
2. Check-call flop. Check-raise turn.

The way you played it, check-call river.

[MrEngenic]

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I do not like your line you took.

I think there are 2 good lines.
1. Lead out betting flop and 3-bet if villain raises.
2. Check-call flop. Check-raise turn.

The way you played it, check-call river.

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Ok, let me ask you:
What worse hands do you put him on that he would 3bet preflop, raise the flop and CALL DOWN a 3 bet with? Or bet the turn and CALL DOWN a turn check raise?

My thoughts:

Since there are more ways of being behind drawing for a little less than a 2outer on average than their are ways of being ahead of AK making him draw to about a 4+ outer, i guess checkcalling aint bad here opposed to crsing the flop.(your checkcall inclined me to think your read was he reraised you with AA-TT and AK?).

Checkcalling the turn seems about right since even AK and TT will often throw a last bet in here with such a coordinated flop. No need to lead out and folding to a raise and putting you in a spot where you can make very costly decisions

If the hands you read him on are correct, you can't beat him on the river anymore and you should check-fold. All power to you if you were able to however holding TPTK /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Oh forgot to mention that if you would include AQ into his range, your getting above the right price to checkcall the river (you need 6:1)

if you include only AQs, you can still fold

[brazilio]

I don't know why this isn't a standard WA/WB unless it perhaps being a resteal gives you a larger amount of equity.

Folding anywhere here sucks.

[peterchi]

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The only way I check that flop is if I'm going for a c/r (which I wouldn't recommend here).

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What's wrong with c/ring this flop?

[brazilio]

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What's wrong with c/ring this flop?

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Costing us the most against QQ,KK,and AA while costing your opponent the least with TT, 99,and AK.

[peterchi]

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What's wrong with c/ring this flop?

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Costing us the most against QQ,KK,and AA while costing your opponent the least with TT, 99, KQ, and AK.

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oh, duh. thanks.

So I see that you wanna go with wa/wb here, but given this likely hand range, wouldn't we want to just check-call the river since a good proportion of his possible hands just sucked out on us (if we were even ahead)? We want to show this down, but I think bet-call and bet-fold both suck...

[brazilio]

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What's wrong with c/ring this flop?

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Costing us the most against QQ,KK,and AA while costing your opponent the least with TT, 99, KQ, and AK.

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oh, duh. thanks.

So I see that you wanna go with wa/wb here, but given this likely hand range, wouldn't we want to just check-call the river since a good proportion of his possible hands just sucked out on us (if we were even ahead)? We want to show this down, but I think bet-call and bet-fold both suck...

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I check/call the flop and turn and bet/call the river usually. I need good stats before I can bet/fold and I really don't like to check/call because AK usually checks through and they'll also usually call a river donkbet.

The only reason I'd want to go to war on the flop here is if I suspect him of a resteal. We can't determine that, since we've only seen him for a bit.

[peterchi]

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What's wrong with c/ring this flop?

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Costing us the most against QQ,KK,and AA while costing your opponent the least with TT, 99, KQ, and AK.

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oh, duh. thanks.

So I see that you wanna go with wa/wb here, but given this likely hand range, wouldn't we want to just check-call the river since a good proportion of his possible hands just sucked out on us (if we were even ahead)? We want to show this down, but I think bet-call and bet-fold both suck...

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I check/call the flop and turn and bet/call the river usually. I need good stats before I can bet/fold and I really don't like to check/call because AK usually checks through and they'll also usually call a river donkbet.

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Except that AK just made broadway here...

[brazilio]

Sorry, I'm a little tired and missed the river card. I'm check/folding the river. The chance he isolated with a lower pocket and the chance he'll bet that river with it are lower than my pot odds are. 77 and <55 are the only things we're beating now, and even if he's a TAG with the same stats we have, he's going to have just as much of a non-read.

[mar]

Exaktly, the AK stright possibility changes this river a lot I think. Now we are really behind most the hands that a normal TAG would 3bet with (10 10 to AA and AK), so I think this is a really hard river, I think I would check call, hoping my check can make him try a bluff with perhaps AJs or 99. But I guess that a check -fold perhaps is the correct move, not a very big pot, but I dont think I would have done it anyway, hard to release TPTK.

I also think this depends on your table image, if you have raised a lot and think that people can get overaggro with you then it puts this in a different situation, or?

[MrEngenic]

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The only reason I'd want to go to war on the flop here is if I suspect him of a resteal.

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So why go to war and tell him we have a hand, as opposed to just calling down and let him hang himself?

Only thing to consider the rivercall is wether you can add AQ (suited and unsuited) to his range of hands. If you can do this, you get about the right price to call for a tied pot (AA-TT+AK *1 : AQ*3.75 results to 46: 56). So you need to be about 80% sure you can include these to make the river call. Otherwise fold

ps. forget the other post i made about this. its rubbish

FYI to MAR: 99 also made his straight

[brazilio]

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The only reason I'd want to go to war on the flop here is if I suspect him of a resteal.

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So why go to war and tell him we have a hand, as opposed to just calling down and let him hang himself?

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People overplay steal/resteal hands, and I want money in the pot.