this sucks.

[The Truth]

Villian is LAG.

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (5 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

[GetThere1Time]

Looks standard. Where's the problem?

[Kyle]

He's running bad and unsure about completely standard situations. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[GetThere1Time]

Looks good to me /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[baronzeus]

If you're very worried about getting bluff -raised on the turn you can just check call. But then you give up all your fold equity.


There's really nothing else. This hand is completely standard.

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
He's running bad and unsure about completely standard situations. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate you /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[The Truth]

we fold the river if he bets? yes?

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
we fold the river if he bets? yes?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's pretty unlikely that he has a Q here so you could get fancy if you want.

I'd fold though.

[The Truth]

considering the river is a non club, it might be a call, a non club/non diamond it gets much closer to a standard call.

[DcifrThs]

if villian is lag you should check the turn.

Barron

[Jeffage]

Anyone else not raise preflop all the time in this spot? Lags often raise anything they play in EP so him not raising often means a big hand he wants to sandbag with or some kinda suited connector. Why give away you have an ace out of position against such a player so he can totally outplay you or potentially get you to make a bad fold. Getting the BB out has some value but I might like calling and checkraising the flop if I like it since I know lag will bet. I just think it's an interesting spot where I don't see raising as wrong, but perhaps not optimal. Thoughts?

Jeff

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else not raise preflop all the time in this spot? Lags often raise anything they play in EP so him not raising often means a big hand he wants to sandbag with or some kinda suited connector. Why give away you have an ace out of position against such a player so he can totally outplay you or potentially get you to make a bad fold. Getting the BB out has some value but I might like calling and checkraising the flop if I like it since I know lag will bet. I just think it's an interesting spot where I don't see raising as wrong, but perhaps not optimal. Thoughts?

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

You are spot on. You can't force a LAG of a hand, so raising preflop does not ad much to your fold equity and A9o is even money at best against most hands, so raising it out of position in this situation basically gains you nothing (other than the feeling that you have to waste another sb on the flop).

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else not raise preflop all the time in this spot? Lags often raise anything they play in EP so him not raising often means a big hand he wants to sandbag with or some kinda suited connector. Why give away you have an ace out of position against such a player so he can totally outplay you or potentially get you to make a bad fold. Getting the BB out has some value but I might like calling and checkraising the flop if I like it since I know lag will bet. I just think it's an interesting spot where I don't see raising as wrong, but perhaps not optimal. Thoughts?

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

You are spot on. You can't force a LAG of a hand, so raising preflop does not ad much to your fold equity and A9o is even money at best against most hands, so raising it out of position in this situation basically gains you nothing (other than the feeling that you have to waste another sb on the flop).

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree slightly.

There are the lags that have a went to showdown percent of 55% and the ones that go to showdown 33% of the time.

This guy was a 33. In addition, these guys will limp fold lots of flops. I am not talking about a 30/22 lag, its more like a 45/15/1 lag. Lots of limping with garbage.

I think it is better to just complete often here, but against the opponent in this hand, I dont think its close.

edit to add: It is also good to knock the BB out and get this pot heads up. I dont remember about the BB in this hand, but I imagine he was pretty tight, so that added some value to the pf raise.