He thinks I'm isolating again, I'm not.

[gh9801]

MP3 is a huge donk who I've been isolating mercilessly, and no one has really tried to stop me.

SB is an unknown who hasnt gotten out of line in the first 15 hands I have on him. I've isolated MP3 5 times in the past 15 hands. He has seen me show down K7, KJ, A4 after isolating the MP3, and winning except when he hit a gutshot with 65o against my K7. I did not show down AT and KK "isolations".

With that in mind...

Party Poker 5.00/10.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.00 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB.

Comments?

[brazilio]

Cap preflop, hand changes significantly from there.

[paperboyNC]

Do you think the SB might fold hands on the river that beat you? Might he fold 99, AT, 88?

I'd probably bet that river. But if he calls with any pair, then betting is just spewing.

[thesharpie]

Pretty easy cap preflop if you think he thinks you have that range.

What the [censored] are you thinking on the turn?

[gh9801]

[ QUOTE ]
Cap preflop, hand changes significantly from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why should I cap preflop here? He thinks I'm isolating and he's out of position... I would rather disguise my hand a little more here.

[peterchi]

I don't like capping pre-flop with AKo.

But I think you have to here.

I don't have much to say about the rest. I think you're losing this one. I like the check-behind on the river.

[thesharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cap preflop, hand changes significantly from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why should I cap preflop here? He thinks I'm isolating and he's out of position... I would rather disguise my hand a little more here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should cap because you gain value in it, more than you'd get by seeing what the flop brings. You don't need to disguise your hand since 2/3 of the time you're not going to flop anything anyway, capping might disguise it more since he might put you on a pair already.

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cap preflop, hand changes significantly from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why should I cap preflop here? He thinks I'm isolating and he's out of position... I would rather disguise my hand a little more here.

[/ QUOTE ]

What good does disguising your hand do if he has 99 and you spike an ace?

Likewise, I don't think you get any less action from AJ/AQ.

[gh9801]

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty easy cap preflop if you think he thinks you have that range.

What the [censored] are you thinking on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking I have hand that beats his.

[gh9801]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like capping pre-flop with AKo.

But I think you have to here.

I don't have much to say about the rest. I think you're losing this one. I like the check-behind on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his three betting standards are very wide here. I beat broadways and Ace highs

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like capping pre-flop with AKo.

But I think you have to here.

I don't have much to say about the rest. I think you're losing this one. I like the check-behind on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his three betting standards are very wide here. I beat broadways and Ace highs

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fine. So cap pre-flop. And there's not much value in a river bet unless you think he's really gonna call you with any of that.

[thesharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pretty easy cap preflop if you think he thinks you have that range.

What the [censored] are you thinking on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking I have hand that beats his.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call down then, since if you are beating him he usually has 3 outs against you, and you avoid getting 3 bet. Fold the river if he won't bluff again, and maybe value bet a blank river if he checks.

[gh9801]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like capping pre-flop with AKo.

But I think you have to here.

I don't have much to say about the rest. I think you're losing this one. I like the check-behind on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his three betting standards are very wide here. I beat broadways and Ace highs

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fine. So cap pre-flop. And there's not much value in a river bet unless you think he's really gonna call you with any of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

So I should just call turn?

[gh9801]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pretty easy cap preflop if you think he thinks you have that range.

What the [censored] are you thinking on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking I have hand that beats his.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call down then, since if you are beating him he usually has 3 outs against you, and you avoid getting 3 bet. Fold the river if he won't bluff again, and maybe value bet a blank river if he checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's unknown, I don't know if he would "put" me on AK and bet the river again. I feel like I get a cheaper showdown this way

Calling the flop and raising the turn seems like a good way to put $10 at risk. Your thought process for this hand seems much better suited for AA-QQ. Surprising someone with ace high, as will often be the case, probably isn't the best line.

[thesharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like capping pre-flop with AKo.

But I think you have to here.

I don't have much to say about the rest. I think you're losing this one. I like the check-behind on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his three betting standards are very wide here. I beat broadways and Ace highs

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fine. So cap pre-flop. And there's not much value in a river bet unless you think he's really gonna call you with any of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

So I should just call turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Think about hands he could have. If he's beating you he could very well 3 bet (you could have 6 outs when he does this and might make an incorrect fold) especially since he thinks you're full of it. On the other hand he's usually drawing slim if you beat him, especially if he has Ax.

[ QUOTE ]
He's unknown, I don't know if he would "put" me on AK and bet the river again. I feel like I get a cheaper showdown this way

[/ QUOTE ]

If all your thinking about is a cheaper showdown, how exactly would you be getting a cheaper showdown this way?

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like capping pre-flop with AKo.

But I think you have to here.

I don't have much to say about the rest. I think you're losing this one. I like the check-behind on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his three betting standards are very wide here. I beat broadways and Ace highs

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fine. So cap pre-flop. And there's not much value in a river bet unless you think he's really gonna call you with any of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

So I should just call turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't sure about that part - that's why I didn't touch it. I don't think it's horrible, if we really believe his range is that wide.

[thesharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pretty easy cap preflop if you think he thinks you have that range.

What the [censored] are you thinking on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking I have hand that beats his.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call down then, since if you are beating him he usually has 3 outs against you, and you avoid getting 3 bet. Fold the river if he won't bluff again, and maybe value bet a blank river if he checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's unknown, I don't know if he would "put" me on AK and bet the river again. I feel like I get a cheaper showdown this way

[/ QUOTE ]

Just calling gives you a cheaper showdown since you don't risk being 3 bet and actually get to see a showdown. Even if he never 3 bets it would cost the same to call down.

[gh9801]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pretty easy cap preflop if you think he thinks you have that range.

What the [censored] are you thinking on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking I have hand that beats his.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call down then, since if you are beating him he usually has 3 outs against you, and you avoid getting 3 bet. Fold the river if he won't bluff again, and maybe value bet a blank river if he checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's unknown, I don't know if he would "put" me on AK and bet the river again. I feel like I get a cheaper showdown this way

[/ QUOTE ]

Just calling gives you a cheaper showdown since you don't risk being 3 bet and actually get to see a showdown. Even if he never 3 bets it would cost the same to call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, way ahead/behind, makes sense.

[TXTiger]

Definite cap preflop, you have a ton of equity here. I think sb is folding a better hand never. I'd raise the flop and take the free card. Donk could have any 2 here. If you take the free card you can call the sb's river bet to catch the bluff. This way you get to showdown for 2bb if you don't pair. Losing less to his 99 or AT. You'll still get the rvier bluff from AQ or KQ. If you think your hand is best (unlikely) you can raise the flop and bet the turn. Again getting to showdown for 2bb UI, and punishing the AQ. I think there's about a 0% chance either one of them folds a pair. You can easily fold to the turn check raise, and I would not overcall if sb bets river and donk calls.

Also I like the flop raise because if sb 3 bets I think we can safely fold the turn UI.

[brazilio]

You not capping with AKo here is the same thing as not capping with AA when you get 3-bet. If you think it'll work meta-wise for more bets on later streets, ok. Otherwise, I'm capping this every time for value. Personally I think an AK that hits is much less easily disguised than the high pockets, and I'd rather get my money in preflop than have a K9s or whatever he's 3-betting with have to fold to the turn checkraise.

[gh9801]

[ QUOTE ]
You not capping with AKo here is the same thing as not capping with AA when you get 3-bet. If you think it'll work meta-wise for more bets on later streets, ok. Otherwise, I'm capping this every time for value. Personally I think an AK that hits is much less easily disguised than the high pockets, and I'd rather get my money in preflop than have a K9s or whatever he's 3-betting with have to fold to the turn checkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds good, I thought this hand could be an exception

[gh9801]

[ QUOTE ]
Definite cap preflop, you have a ton of equity here. I think sb is folding a better hand never. I'd raise the flop and take the free card. Donk could have any 2 here. If you take the free card you can call the sb's river bet to catch the bluff. This way you get to showdown for 2bb if you don't pair. Losing less to his 99 or AT. You'll still get the rvier bluff from AQ or KQ. If you think your hand is best (unlikely) you can raise the flop and bet the turn. Again getting to showdown for 2bb UI, and punishing the AQ. I think there's about a 0% chance either one of them folds a pair. You can easily fold to the turn check raise, and I would not overcall if sb bets river and donk calls.

Also I like the flop raise because if sb 3 bets I think we can safely fold the turn UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are probably right

[thesharpie]

I smell a troll. I did a few posts ago but gave benefit of the doubt.

[gh9801]

Well, enough of my FPS, I should have played it 100000 ways differently...

In this hand SB had QJ though and rivered a pair.

[jskills]

Turn raise is kind of ill (and expensive) with 6 outs. SB very likey has a made hand and isn't going to fold.

The free card play might be best to use on the flop. Then you can check behind UI on the turn and get away from the hand cheaply on the river or call if you think you A high is good for some reason. Either way, it's the least expensive way to get there which is important when competing for a relatively small pot.