Worst Call ever

[Taraz]

I felt like a jackass right after I clicked call. SB had raised the previous 4 hands and I told myself I was playing to win. Stupid move?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t730)
Button (t3000)
SB (t4500)
Hero (t1770)

Dealt to Hero (A /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif)
2 folds, SB raises all-in t4500, Hero calls

[Freudian]

I had a guy misclick-call my 85k chip all-in with 42o in a Pokerstars MTT. He was not pleased.

[microbet]

Certainly not the worst call. I think it's pretty close. The shorty isn't THAT short and the SB is pretty much on any two.

I think AT is a call for sure. Someone should run the numbers on it.

[DCJ311]

Given the exact situation, it seems like a really bad call.. you have almost 2.5x as many chips as the short stack, not to mention two 'free' hands before you hit your next BB. By calling, you are taking a huge chance of bubbling, without proportionate gain in equity in chip EV.

Remember, when you call a big stack's allin, you're taking chips away from him that are not that significant, since that player is likely to make the money anyways. The player/s you want to be taking risks against are the short stack and the middle stacks, if you absolutely must. Here, I would likely fold all but very strong hands, like 99+, AQs+. Maybe sng analyzer says differently but I would definitely not call here with a hand as marginal as A7c.

[DJ Sensei]

the "numbers" say A7s is a -3.6% EV call with button as a maniac (AA-22, Ax, Kx, Qx, J7+, T8+, 98), so not so good. With button pushing any 2, its still -2.0% to call. However, it lists the only actual +EV call hands as JJ-AA, so who knows.

My gut feeling is its a bad call. Playing to win is one thing, but better to play for a win with a better spot or once already ITM. (You gain just as much $ going from OTM to 3rd as you do from 2nd to 1st)

[microbet]

It is good to be tight here, but I think it's not too bad a call if you put SB on ANY two, which seems to be accurate.

A7 might not make it, but I guess AT will.

[microbet]

That's JJ+ on any two or on maniac?

Either way, looks like I'm toast with my AT call. Wah. I'll plead rust. I haven't played in a while.

[microbet]

Ok, guess I'll do it the old fashioned way.

$EV fold = .218
$EV win = .320

.320 * x = .218
x = .68

Ok, I'm an idiot. Even with any two you should have TT+. (though even 88 is slightly +$EV against ANY two)

[DCJ311]

[ QUOTE ]
It is good to be tight here, but I think it's not too bad a call if you put SB on ANY two, which seems to be accurate.

A7 might not make it, but I guess AT will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but the problem is that the short stack is so short. If the guy had like 1300, and not 750, it would be an easy call. But because the short stack is going to have to post almost half his stack to pass the next blinds, that gives him a very good chance of going broke before you are even in 'desperation' mode. So therefore you can fold here, passing up a very likely +EV chip edge, but retain the GIANT cash EV edge you have.

Understanding when to place more value on cash EV than chip EV is what separates the great sng players from the rest of them.

[DyessMan89]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is good to be tight here, but I think it's not too bad a call if you put SB on ANY two, which seems to be accurate.

A7 might not make it, but I guess AT will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but the problem is that the short stack is so short. If the guy had like 1300, and not 750, it would be an easy call. But because the short stack is going to have to post almost half his stack to pass the next blinds, that gives him a very good chance of going broke before you are even in 'desperation' mode. So therefore you can fold here, passing up a very likely +EV chip edge, but retain the GIANT cash EV edge you have.

Understanding when to place more value on cash EV than chip EV is what separates the great sng players from the rest of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

[microbet]

Alright alright already. I already said I was an idiot.

[tigerite]

I've seen worse, believe me. Like A2o, QJo and J9s.

[Taraz]

I just drove 6 hours to get down to LA from San Francisco and every 15 minutes I told myself, "God damn it, Ace-seven! I'm such an idiot!"

Coming back to read that I am, in fact, an idiot is consoling in a way. At least I realize when I make these bad plays . . .

[tigerite]

I've also seen people with >10BB as 2nd stack call with stuff like ATo, AJo when you have them covered and there's a 2BB stack, which in my opinion is actually worse than this call.

Worst call ever? Lol and give me a break. Wonder what you'll think of this - the worst I've witnessed.

In a 55 level 2, guy bets out roughly the pot, about 275-300 on the flop on an ace high board, calls allin raise for about 1000 more and has ............ K3o, no pair no draws nuthin.

Only thing I've heard of that comes close was a post I saw here a while back where a guy bet about 900 level 1 I think it was with practically nothing in the pot and folded to the reraise of allin about 900 more.

I suppose the first one could have been a misclick but it's hard to raise 900 to steal about 25 chips on a misclick, makes your call look like pure genius.

Feel better?

And while I'm on the subject, I was heads up with someone about 2 weeks ago in a 55 who called my allin 3 times with hands like 74, 63 and 53. I tell ya, your call is nothing compared to some of the stuff I see every day at the 55's.

[Toro]

I started a similar thread on 8/15 after I made this call when I called the villian who had quad aces with my K high:

PokerStars Game #2343614685: Tournament #11330343, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2005/08/15 - 09:27:53 (ET)
Table '11330343 1' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Toro85 (2555 in chips)
Seat 6: DavidF1968 (10945 in chips)
Toro85: posts the ante 25
DavidF1968: posts the ante 25
Toro85: posts small blind 100
DavidF1968: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Toro85 [Kd Jh]
Toro85: calls 100
DavidF1968: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ah As 6h]
DavidF1968: checks
Toro85: bets 400
DavidF1968: raises 1930 to 2330
Toro85: calls 1930 and is all-in
Toro85 said, "haha"
*** TURN *** [Ah As 6h] [8c]
DavidF1968 said, "gg"
*** RIVER *** [Ah As 6h 8c] [Js]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DavidF1968: shows [Ac Ad] (four of a kind, Aces)
Toro85: shows [Kd Jh] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
DavidF1968 collected 5110 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5110 | Rake 0
Board [Ah As 6h 8c Js]
Seat 1: Toro85 (button) (small blind) showed [Kd Jh] and lost with two pair, Aces and Jacks
Seat 6: DavidF1968 (big blind) showed [Ac Ad] and won (5110) with four of a kind, Aces

[jon462]

[ QUOTE ]
I started a similar thread on 8/15 after I made this call when I called the villian who had quad aces with my K high:

PokerStars Game #2343614685: Tournament #11330343, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2005/08/15 - 09:27:53 (ET)
Table '11330343 1' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Toro85 (2555 in chips)
Seat 6: DavidF1968 (10945 in chips)
Toro85: posts the ante 25
DavidF1968: posts the ante 25
Toro85: posts small blind 100
DavidF1968: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Toro85 [Kd Jh]
Toro85: calls 100
DavidF1968: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ah As 6h]
DavidF1968: checks
Toro85: bets 400
DavidF1968: raises 1930 to 2330
Toro85: calls 1930 and is all-in
Toro85 said, "haha"
*** TURN *** [Ah As 6h] [8c]
DavidF1968 said, "gg"
*** RIVER *** [Ah As 6h 8c] [Js]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DavidF1968: shows [Ac Ad] (four of a kind, Aces)
Toro85: shows [Kd Jh] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
DavidF1968 collected 5110 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5110 | Rake 0
Board [Ah As 6h 8c Js]
Seat 1: Toro85 (button) (small blind) showed [Kd Jh] and lost with two pair, Aces and Jacks
Seat 6: DavidF1968 (big blind) showed [Ac Ad] and won (5110) with four of a kind, Aces

[/ QUOTE ]

thats a pretty bad call. lol. Your opp played the hand pretty badly too, tho.

[bennies]

[ QUOTE ]
I had a guy misclick-call my 85k chip all-in with 42o in a Pokerstars MTT. He was not pleased.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

I wonder how this thread could continue after the above...

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I started a similar thread on 8/15 after I made this call when I called the villian who had quad aces with my K high:

PokerStars Game #2343614685: Tournament #11330343, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2005/08/15 - 09:27:53 (ET)
Table '11330343 1' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Toro85 (2555 in chips)
Seat 6: DavidF1968 (10945 in chips)
Toro85: posts the ante 25
DavidF1968: posts the ante 25
Toro85: posts small blind 100
DavidF1968: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Toro85 [Kd Jh]
Toro85: calls 100
DavidF1968: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ah As 6h]
DavidF1968: checks
Toro85: bets 400
DavidF1968: raises 1930 to 2330
Toro85: calls 1930 and is all-in
Toro85 said, "haha"
*** TURN *** [Ah As 6h] [8c]
DavidF1968 said, "gg"
*** RIVER *** [Ah As 6h 8c] [Js]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DavidF1968: shows [Ac Ad] (four of a kind, Aces)
Toro85: shows [Kd Jh] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
DavidF1968 collected 5110 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5110 | Rake 0
Board [Ah As 6h 8c Js]
Seat 1: Toro85 (button) (small blind) showed [Kd Jh] and lost with two pair, Aces and Jacks
Seat 6: DavidF1968 (big blind) showed [Ac Ad] and won (5110) with four of a kind, Aces

[/ QUOTE ]

thats a pretty bad call. lol. Your opp played the hand pretty badly too, tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't necessarily agree that my opponent played this badly. What part of his play did you disagree with, pushing all-in on the flop after I bet 400? This is how he sucked me into calling as I thought he was trying to "buy" it. If he had smooth called, I probably give up on the hand if I don't hit a king or jack on the turn.

[raptor517]

yer right thats pretty atrociously bad. calling even with TT is borderline.. and i fold AJ here all day. AQ i b!tch and then fold it. holla

[Taraz]

OK, so maybe it's not the worst call ever. But it definitely my worst call ever. Live and learn (and scream profanity while you're learning).

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
Understanding when to place more value on cash EV than chip EV is what separates the great sng players from the rest of them.


[/ QUOTE ]
Shouldn't you always place more value on cash ev or am I missing something?