KK against flop re-raise

[mikeca]

At a typical, mostly passive 0.50/1 online game, I am in early position with KsKd. It’s folded to me, and I raise. It’s folded to the button, who calls. The SB and BB both call. Flop is:

8h 2d Js.

SB leads out, BB flolds. I figure the SB for a Jx, and raise. Button cold calls 2, and SB reraises. Button has only been at the table for a short while, but seems tight. SB is too loose pre-flop, but seems to play ok post-flop. I’m confused about what hands these two might have (2 pair?), but I don’t think the SB would reraise with just a J. I call and button calls too. Turn is:

[8h 2d Js.] Qd

SB bets out. I suspect I’m behind here with few outs. I decide to just call it down. I call, and button folds. River is:

[8h 2d Js Qd] 6s

SB bets out again. I call.

SB shows Ac2h for bottom pair!!

WTF. Did I give this guy way too much credit? Prior to this he had shown down good starting cards that had connected to the flop. Did he figure I had AK, and his pair of 2s was good? Should I have capped the flop? Raised the turn? Raised the river?

[AceHigh]

You played it fine.

You thought this guy was a reasonable player and just called it down, when he told you you were beat. Sounds reasonable to me. Maybe when you play more often with him, you will get a different read and can adjust.

[bernie]

did the thought that he was bluffing or trying a variance play ever cross your mind? think about your reaction here. now youre questioning how he plays. isnt this the idea in playing cards. not to say, 'he plays good cards'. but, 'i cant put him on a hand.'

now im not sure if this is why he played this hand, but it's something to look at. especially youre reaction and how it may have affected how you played against him in later hands. and the reasoning behind it.

hindsight you played the turn fine, he'd likely have folded if you raised, however, without the results, id have raised the turn or the river. the problem is if he 3 bets you. given youre read on this player prior to the hand, you may have folded to a 3 bet. which isnt unreasonable. unless you look at the results.

or he couldve just got board and decided to get frisky and blow some chips. did he get out of line with other hands after this? or tighten up again....

cya

b

[Tekari]

[KDF]

Hi mikeca,

Did you think about what he thought about you? Seems too sophisticated for micro limits, but there are some real players down there sometimes. Looks like a semi-bluff/ image play to me that might have caused you to fold your KK or he could've drawn an A or a 2 to beat you. He played at you- I like his play, especially if it worked to throw you off (which it did). You should take note of that type of play, and try it out once in a while and make the other guy say "WTF!"

On the other hand, he could have been an idiot. The trick is determining the difference.

IMHO
PS. making this play too often makes you an idiot, making it once in a while might lead them to think you're an idiot- which is usually good.

[MD_]

[mikeca]

[SoCalPat]

My .02 (and my first post)?

Yes, you gave this guy way too much credit.

This flop is waaaa-yyyyyy too ragged for me to believe anyone has better than top pair. And if someone is holding two pair, why would he three-bet the flop and risk losing more bigger bets on the turn and flop?

I would have capped the flop and raised the turn. If he re-raises me there, I slow down in fear of the straight (although why he'd 3-bet a draw is beyond me, but this is micro-limit, after all), but unless a diamond, 9 or 10 were to have fallen on the river, I wouldn't think of letting go of this one.

In short, you probably cost yourself a bet or two, but it's not worth beating yourself over the head. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[mikeca]

I would like to thank everyone for their comments.

My experience so far in low limit B&M games and in these micro limit online games is if you have a good hand, and someone show strength against you, you are better off to just call them down. Many times you will be beat, but occasionally not. I could have raised the turn, but if he had raised back, I would have a hard time calling it. For the same money I can call him down and find out what he really has.

As for image plays, I don’t think they are worth anything at these limits. If I were frequently playing with the same people, image plays would be more important, but in the big B&M card rooms I play in occasionally, I hardly ever see anyone I know, and online, the players at the table turn over rapidly.

I really don’t know what the SB thought he was doing. He seemed very reasonable. 15 or 20 minutes before this, after a hand he was not involved in, he called another player a “damn calling stallion” for calling to the river with pocket 4s. The river was a 4, giving this player a set to suck out on a third player. Perhaps he had observed that the other two players in this hand were both tight and he thought he could bluff us both off. Perhaps he thought he was not getting enough action on his good hands, and wanted to encourage more calls. I left the table after one more hand, so I have no idea how he played after this.