My first session at party 10/20 (Long, lots of stuff) [Archive]

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baronzeus

09-01-2005, 03:45 PM

To celebrate the new month after a great August, I decided that it was time to move on from 5/10. I did my first session today (about 500 hands) and here are my thoughts and some hands.

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I felt lost a lot. Sometimes the bet would be so random that I just had to call down
I got check-raised on the turn a lot
The 45/20 type players were much harder to play against than I thought
I felt like I was running bad even though I probably wasn't.
I went to showdown with K high once
Table selection was very important. I tried to avoid the tables with 2-3 semi-LAGs on my first day
I didn't find one loose passive player. The closest one to loose passive took a ton of my money by randomly donking turns and having me call down at the wrong times.
The money loss did not bother me, but I was only down at most 40BBs during the session (my max positive point was 25BBs)
I started out with 4 tables, then lowered to 2 half way through the session so that I could get better reads and focus more
I made way too many fancy plays against LAGs.
I found myself frustrated when I made a good read but the guy hit his hand anyhow.
[/list]

Here are my session stats.

http://baronzeus.com/session1.JPG

I know I didn't steal enough. I was being as aggressive as ever but I was card dead for a long stretch in the session (my vpip dropped to 17 at one point).

Here are some interesting hands

1: How's the river call?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG :#A500AF(pipino76)/ raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG :#A500AF(pipino76)/ calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, pipino76 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, pipino76 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
pipino76 checks, Hero bets, pipino76 calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
pipino76 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Same deal. River call?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, MP :#A500AF(billcom)/ raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP :#A500AF(billcom)/ calls.

Flop: (7 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, billcom calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, billcom calls.

River: (6.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, billcom bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Opponent here donked me every time i raised preflop, with a pair, draw, or nothing. Fair calldown?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB :#A500AF(JWILLDOIT2)/ calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
JWILLDOIT2 checks, BB checks, Hero bets, JWILLDOIT2 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
JWILLDOIT2 bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
JWILLDOIT2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Weird river raise on a blank. Good call?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, MP :#A500AF(tanmouse)/ calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, tanmouse calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, tanmouse calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, tanmouse raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Anyone like the turn bet?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises, 1 fold, CO :#A500AF(JulieKK)/ 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, JulieKK bets, Hero raises, JulieKK 3-bets, Hero caps, JulieKK calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, JulieKK raises, Hero calls.

River: (11.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, JulieKK bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

Anyone like this river call?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, SB :#A500AF(SHAZ1111)/ 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SHAZ1111 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SHAZ1111 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SHAZ1111 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

River raise fold? Flop call? Guy is a LAG.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
4 folds, SB :#A500AF(sphunt)/ completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (2 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
sphunt bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (2 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
sphunt checks, Hero checks.

River: (2 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
sphunt bets, Hero raises, sphunt 3-bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Subby

09-01-2005, 03:57 PM

My only advice would be to avoid tables with JulieKK /images/graemlins/wink.gif

baronzeus

09-01-2005, 03:59 PM

hah. Is that you?

NLSoldier

09-01-2005, 03:59 PM

Hand 1 I fold the river

Hand 2 I play the same

Hand 3 I fold to the turn donk

Hand 4 is tough, I play it the same but dont like it much

Hand 5 I think you have to check call the turn.

Hand 6 I like, because I don't think most people will bet Ace high there.

Hand 7 I'd just call the river bet, but I think its pretty close and a better kicker would probably turn it into a raise.

Subby

09-01-2005, 04:00 PM

Lord no. I wish I was that good. She crushed me at 5/10 and I ran fabulously there.

I feel for you on those hands...collectively they define the pain and anguish of 10/20. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

NLSoldier

09-01-2005, 04:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't find one loose passive player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I found this funny because like someone else said in one of the "moving past 10/20 6m" threads, after youve played higher, the guys at 10/20 start to seem loose passive.

Alobar

09-01-2005, 04:05 PM

dont 4 table a new limit, I think thats a recipe for disaster

NLSoldier

09-01-2005, 04:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
dont 4 table a new limit, I think thats a recipe for disaster

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, I was gonna say the same thing.

baronzeus

09-01-2005, 04:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dont 4 table a new limit, I think thats a recipe for disaster

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, I was gonna say the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, after I removed two of the tables I focused more. I probably won't add more tables for at least a week if I feel more comfortable.

wheelz

09-01-2005, 04:07 PM

Hand 1: I'd fold the river
Hand 2: I play the same
Hand 3: I fold the turn
Hand 4: I play the same
Hand 5: Is just like my KJ hand the other day... no I don't like the turn bet
Hand 6: These are all tough without reads, but I think it's good
Hand 7: Not sure... I think I'd just call the river because I can't see him paying off with a worse hand. If he's a LAG, why did he check the turn, then bet the river? I think it might be a big hand or nothing situation.

baronzeus

09-01-2005, 04:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I'd fold the river

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised now that two better players have said this. The guy was a LAG/donk (which I didn't say before, sorry). I feel like he would have check-raised the turn with anything decent and the river bet looked like desperation. (Unless of course the river helped him /images/graemlins/wink.gif)

[ QUOTE ]
These are all tough without reads, but I think it's good

[/ QUOTE ]

SHAZ1111 was a 50/30 type player

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 7: Not sure... I think I'd just call the river because I can't see him paying off with a worse hand. If he's a LAG, why did he check the turn, then bet the river? I think it might be a big hand or nothing situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very good analysis. I have no idea what he had but I'm sure he had me crushed.

Michael Davis

09-01-2005, 04:12 PM

"Hand 5 I think you have to check call the turn."

Given our opponent's hand range we don't have the odds to draw for a fullhouse that loses sometimes anyways. There's a 0% chance we have the best hand. Why call? As far as I can tell betting and calling this turn is just throwing away money.

-Michael

baronzeus

09-01-2005, 04:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Hand 5 I think you have to check call the turn."

Given our opponent's hand range we don't have the odds to draw for a fullhouse that loses sometimes anyways. There's a 0% chance we have the best hand. Why call? As far as I can tell betting and calling this turn is just throwing away money.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that if I check here I don't have the odds to draw...but once I bet and she raised there were 11BBs in the pot and I had to draw /images/graemlins/frown.gif

The river call was just horrible on my part /images/graemlins/frown.gif

09-01-2005, 04:14 PM

Christ, I feel lost on every one of those hands. And here I thought I was getting half-decent at 6-max...

NLSoldier

09-01-2005, 04:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Hand 5 I think you have to check call the turn."

Given our opponent's hand range we don't have the odds to draw for a fullhouse that loses sometimes anyways. There's a 0% chance we have the best hand. Why call? As far as I can tell betting and calling this turn is just throwing away money.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, after looking at the hand again I agree. My thought at the time was that villian's flop 3bet might have been pumping a heart draw, but I missed the villians PF 3bet which makes that pretty unlikely.

wheelz

09-01-2005, 04:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised now that two better players have said this. The guy was a LAG/donk (which I didn't say before, sorry). I feel like he would have check-raised the turn with anything decent and the river bet looked like desperation. (Unless of course the river helped him /images/graemlins/wink.gif)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah it would've helped if you said he was a lag/donk... that certainly changes things. For him to suddenly bet into you after all that action though, it looks a lot more like he doesn't want the river checked through than it does a random bluff. He can't expect you to fold. So now that he thinks he 2 outed you he wants to get some money in.

[ QUOTE ]
SHAZ1111 was a 50/30 type player

[/ QUOTE ]

Then I like it.

ggbman

09-01-2005, 04:24 PM

In some of these hand, you played the correctly assuming your were at 5-10. But for 10-20, some of yor lines need to change.

Hnad 1: check behind the turn, call any river bet. you will induce tons of bluffs, and youdon't want to get c/r here/

hand 2: Good

Hand 3: Muck the turn here

Hand 4: Good

Hand 5: This turn lead is aweful, one of the worst cards in the deck hit

Hand 6: I'd kuck the flop. Why call this down?

Hnad 7: Flop call is marginal, river riase is bad since bluffs don't pay you off. Also, people will bluff 3 bet on weird hands like this, so just call.

Gabe

Smarty

09-01-2005, 04:27 PM

Well, here are my 2 cents on these hands...

1. I play it the same way but probably fold the river.

2. Played it exactly how I would have, but I still think this is a weird spot.

3. Fold the turn, especially with 2 others in.

4. I sometimes led the flop and other times I c/r. Given that you led the flop, it seems fine. The river raise doesn't make me very happy, but I call it.

5. I probably only 3-bet the flop and play it as it develops. Given the turn, I am check-calling down unless I fill up on the river.

6. I probably fold the flop. Given the turn, I call but I fold on that river.

7. I just call on the river.

I look forward to see what others are saying.

wheelz

09-01-2005, 04:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hnad 1: check behind the turn, call any river bet. you will induce tons of bluffs, and youdon't want to get c/r here

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I like that better

baronzeus

09-01-2005, 04:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hnad 1: check behind the turn, call any river bet. you will induce tons of bluffs, and youdon't want to get c/r here

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I like that better

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh this is an adjustment i need to make. Since there are so many draws on that flop I bet it every time in 5/10

adamstewart

09-01-2005, 04:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I started out with 4 tables

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/mad.gif

sthief09

09-01-2005, 04:41 PM

I think you're probably getting way ahead of yourself.

baronzeus

09-01-2005, 04:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're probably getting way ahead of yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

can you explain

DeathDonkey

09-01-2005, 04:44 PM

You are D.E.A.D. on the turn against JulieKK. That one was the worst and I don't like calling the flop with your KJ on the QQ6 board.

-DeathDonkey

sam h

09-01-2005, 04:50 PM

1 - Ok.
2 - Bet the river.
3 - Opponent dependent. He needs to have air about 1/3 of the time here. I don't think there are that many opponents for whom this will be true, but maybe some.
4 - Looks good.
5 - Check fold the turn.
6 - Ok. Probably dependent upon pre/post flop aggression.
7 - Call the river. He either has nothing or something big here. Weak one pair hands would have bet the turn. The only jack you beat is J5.