Don't understand this ($555)-Stars

[Oluwafemi]

PokerStars Game #2473678700: Tournament #12013320, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2005/09/01 - 15:10:50 (ET)
Table '12013320 1' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: SheFaLLs (770 in chips)
Seat 2: MehnDaMassah (3205 in chips)
Seat 6: girlontop (5715 in chips)
Seat 9: JohnnyBax (3810 in chips)
SheFaLLs: posts the ante 25
MehnDaMassah: posts the ante 25
girlontop: posts the ante 25
JohnnyBax: posts the ante 25
JohnnyBax: posts small blind 100
SheFaLLs: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
MehnDaMassah: raises 400 to 600
girlontop: folds
JohnnyBax: raises 3185 to 3785 and is all-in
SheFaLLs: calls 545 and is all-in
MehnDaMassah: calls 2580 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [Jc 5d Ks]
JohnnyBax said, "oops"
*** TURN *** [Jc 5d Ks] [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [Jc 5d Ks Kh] [6h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JohnnyBax: shows [8c Jh] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
MehnDaMassah: shows [Qs Qc] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
MehnDaMassah collected 4870 from side pot
SheFaLLs: shows [8s 9h] (a pair of Kings)
MehnDaMassah collected 2335 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 7205 Main pot 2335. Side pot 4870. | Rake 0
Board [Jc 5d Ks Kh 6h]
Seat 1: SheFaLLs (big blind) showed [8s 9h] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 2: MehnDaMassah showed [Qs Qc] and won (7205) with two pair, Kings and Queens
Seat 6: girlontop (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: JohnnyBax (small blind) showed [8c Jh] and lost with two pair, Kings and Jacks

[Bill Poker]

typical bubble play

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
typical bubble play

[/ QUOTE ]

for who?

[wulfheir]

i typically don't call with 98o after a raise and re-raise in front of me.

[Oluwafemi]

actually, i'm looking at Johnny's play. i definitely would've folded my 9 8o though.

[lorinda]

I hate commenting on anything over $100, but this appears to be dismal play.

I'm assuing this is 1-table, normal pay structure and all that jazz?

Lori

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate commenting on anything over $100, but this appears to be dismal play.

I'm assuing this is 1-table, normal pay structure and all that jazz?

yes.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

[lorinda]

Johnny's play seems to be just an aggressive steal, probably based on prior notes on his opponent (and the fact his opponent needs a monster to call)

Lori

[handsome]

Depends on the game texture. Maybe MehnDaMassah had been getting away with too many blind steals. A push/re-steal would mean he'd comfortably be 2nd in chips and have a good chance to win, while a fold would put him in pretty bad shape.

[lorinda]

My original comment was about the small stack's call, the rest seems reasonably normal.

Lori

[bluefeet]

MehnDaMassah: raises 400 to 600
JohnnyBax: raises 3185 to 3785 and is all-in
SheFaLLs: calls 545 and is all-in

"She" knows that "Johnny" is pushing over "Mehn" with god knows what, because "Johnny" knows that "Menh" can't possibly call without da-nuts, because "She" is fixin to bust.

"She" is looking at 2 live connected cards, ZERO FE, and one shot at getting tripled-up...heads-up!

Edit: Poor-fok $25...not that i'd have a clue what these guys might be thinking - plausible i guess

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
My original comment was about the small stack's call, the rest seems reasonably normal.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

the SS has been playing alot of big buy-in SNGs over the past week on Stars from $225 to $1050. i never really noticed the player before that. Bax, i know is a solid player.

[BigHobo]

[ QUOTE ]
i typically don't call with 98o after a raise and re-raise in front of me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love the 98 play. She figures that there is no way Massah calls with her being so close to being bubbled out. That means she can triple up while only going against one player, a player who is big-stack bullying and may not have much of a hand. If she doesn't call and Massah folds, it's pretty much lights out for her.

Of course, considering that Massah didn't fold it didn't quite work out for her as planned but I love the play.

[lorinda]

That seems reasonable.

Lori

[Roland32]

I think this is a good play. She know 1st in cant call best chance to get back in the tourney

[pooh74]

JOhny's raise is a good one. He has original raiser covered and Original raiser know that SS is all but out. Typical play, i dont get it.

SS's call is fine too. Has to figure that 98 are usually live and has to also assume that CO will fold to the reraise.

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i typically don't call with 98o after a raise and re-raise in front of me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love the 98 play. She figures that there is no way Massah calls with her being so close to being bubbled out. That means she can triple up while only going against one player, a player who is big-stack bullying and may not have much of a hand. If she doesn't call and Massah folds, it's pretty much lights out for her.

Of course, considering that Massah didn't fold it didn't quite work out for her as planned but I love the play.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, your logic is pretty much what I was thinking the rationale would be. The way the stacks are situated, the small stack has such a small chance of making the money that their best hope is to triple up now, and this is a great time to do so considering they are in the BB and that the original raisor is calling with only a monster.

this leaves one/ question in my mind - we "know" that the original raisor is only calling w/ a monster, the raisor presumably knows that too, no?

Assuming he knows this, he was baiting Bax w/ the QQ expecting the RR, right? If he wasn't, he would have raised more PF to discourage someone from coming over-the-top, no? given that QQ is far from invincible, and a loss pretty much eliminates the chance at first, this is fairly risky, especially if you tighten Bax's RR standards, though if they were really tight the point of making a bait play is somewhat lost, right?

ok, i have a headache /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BigHobo]

[ QUOTE ]
JOhny's raise is a good one. He has original raiser covered and Original raiser know that SS is all but out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually don't like this re-raise. That kind of play only makes sense to me when a player has enough chips to handle a loss without it being too much of a problem. If Johnny had $1k more in chips it makes sense. As it is, he had the potential to be crippled.

Furthermore, Johnny had to acknowlege the possibility that the short stack would call. If so, he may get the original raiser to fold but still lose the pot and triple up the short stack.

Finally, he may assume that he wouldn't get called without Massah having the nuts, but I've seen calls in this situation with all kinds of crap (88, AK, AQ etc.). Stupid, yes, but it happens.

[adanthar]

If you run this through ICM I get the feeling that the worst mathematical mistake made in this hand was Mehn's not pushing PF, because when 'She' folds he is probably wrong to call this reraise that Johnny's gonna make with one and a half cards.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
JOhny's raise is a good one. He has original raiser covered and Original raiser know that SS is all but out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually don't like this re-raise. That kind of play only makes sense to me when a player has enough chips to handle a loss without it being too much of a problem. If Johnny had $1k more in chips it makes sense. As it is, he had the potential to be crippled.

Furthermore, Johnny had to acknowlege the possibility that the short stack would call. If so, he may get the original raiser to fold but still lose the pot and triple up the short stack.

Finally, he may assume that he wouldn't get called without Massah having the nuts, but I've seen calls in this situation with all kinds of crap (88, AK, AQ etc.). Stupid, yes, but it happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

BAsically, Massah had the worst hand he should call with here (absent a read). I am not saying its a great play, just that its not too interesting or out of the ordinary. At a lower level, the SS would not call here hoping (wrongly) that Massah would call and get busted. At a higher level of play, players SHOULD all be aware of these concepts and hence you have what unfolded above.

Massah has QQ, "i want action"

Johny has 2 cards "I can take this away from him because of shorty"

She-shorty: "I think Johny is stealing from massah with any two and massah will fold and I can triple up against one player who might be raising with any two."

Ironically, the shorty made the best play here. That is, independent of the actual cards. Of course, having QQ PF makes almost any play look sensible besides folding.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
If you run this through ICM I get the feeling that the worst mathematical mistake made in this hand was Mehn's not pushing PF, because when 'She' folds he is probably wrong to call this reraise that Johnny's gonna make with one and a half cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmmmm------

[Nacarno]

[ QUOTE ]
I love the 98 play. She figures that there is no way Massah calls with her being so close to being bubbled out. That means she can triple up while only going against one player, a player who is big-stack bullying and may not have much of a hand. If she doesn't call and Massah folds, it's pretty much lights out for her.

Of course, considering that Massah didn't fold it didn't quite work out for her as planned but I love the play.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why does Massah have to call with only a monster here? Once the shorty calls, a call from Massah means She has to beat two players if Massah calls. Knowing Bax has some pretty loose reraising standards here, this seems like a good chance to try and more than double up with a strong (but not a monster) hand.