Letting go of a good hand

Was playing online just now and I had 5-3. Didn't think too much of it but the flop got me interested when it came up 5-2-6. The turn was a 4. Naturally I was excited.

I went all-in and was called by a guy with K-K.

Obviously I won but my question is why don't players make the good decision to fold when they are clearly beat. Players get attached to A-A and the like but when you are drawing dead you have to let go.....

[CJHunt]

Without knowing the exacts of the situation I assume you called out of position and he couldn't put you on a three.

My guess.

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Was playing online just now and I had 5-3. Didn't think too much of it but the flop got me interested when it came up 5-2-6. The turn was a 4. Naturally I was excited.

I went all-in and was called by a guy with K-K.

Obviously I won but my question is why don't players make the good decision to fold when they are clearly beat. Players get attached to A-A and the like but when you are drawing dead you have to let go.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's be the guy with KK. This is apparently NL hold'em, so we'll proceed from there.

I'm going to presume also that you're in the BB - I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

Let's say this is .25/.50 NL - it doesn't matter, but having a bet size makes it feel more real.

I hold KK in MP and raise to $1.50. All fold to the BB who calls.

I'm starting to put BB on a range of hands. A suited ace or king, two broadway cards, mid-largish pair, but not AA.

Flop: 5? 2? 6? - let's assume rainbow.

BB checks. I bet half the pot, about $1.50. BB calls.

Strange, now I'm narrowing his hands more. Maybe an ace and he paired his kicker here or an overpair. It's rainbow, so we'll assume no flush draws, but maybe he also has a backdoor possible here.

Turn: 4? - let's say it puts 2 to a flush on board.

BB pushes all in. Weird. Did he really play a 3 like this? Even if he has A3, would he play this way? Why would he call my flop bet with A3? Hmmm. Okay, maybe he has a four flush and is trying to move me off or perhaps he's using the "scary" board as a bluff. If he's semi-bluffing, I have to call. My only worry is that he is actually playing a 3, and that's impossible. I'll call.

Doh!

We don't know the details nor the stack sizes, but based on your description, you played this hand terribly. I also think that if you get a well hidden monster like this, a push on the turn is pretty terrible as well.

Sorry to be harsh, but your thinking is out of whack on this one.

Regards,

T

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Was playing online just now and I had 5-3. Didn't think too much of it but the flop got me interested when it came up 5-2-6. The turn was a 4. Naturally I was excited.

I went all-in and was called by a guy with K-K.

Obviously I won but my question is why don't players make the good decision to fold when they are clearly beat. Players get attached to A-A and the like but when you are drawing dead you have to let go.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's be the guy with KK. This is apparently NL hold'em, so we'll proceed from there.

I'm going to presume also that you're in the BB - I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

Let's say this is .25/.50 NL - it doesn't matter, but having a bet size makes it feel more real.

I hold KK in MP and raise to $1.50. All fold to the BB who calls.

I'm starting to put BB on a range of hands. A suited ace or king, two broadway cards, mid-largish pair, but not AA.

Flop: 5? 2? 6? - let's assume rainbow.

BB checks. I bet half the pot, about $1.50. BB calls.

Strange, now I'm narrowing his hands more. Maybe an ace and he paired his kicker here or an overpair. It's rainbow, so we'll assume no flush draws, but maybe he also has a backdoor possible here.

Turn: 4? - let's say it puts 2 to a flush on board.

BB pushes all in. Weird. Did he really play a 3 like this? Even if he has A3, would he play this way? Why would he call my flop bet with A3? Hmmm. Okay, maybe he has a four flush and is trying to move me off or perhaps he's using the "scary" board as a bluff. If he's semi-bluffing, I have to call. My only worry is that he is actually playing a 3, and that's impossible. I'll call.

Doh!

We don't know the details nor the stack sizes, but based on your description, you played this hand terribly. I also think that if you get a well hidden monster like this, a push on the turn is pretty terrible as well.

Sorry to be harsh, but your thinking is out of whack on this one.

Regards,

T

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can believe it, he was a worst player than me.
He didn't bet until I went all-in. He was slowplaying it for all it was worth.

But the point is that if you see four to a straight or four to a flush aren't you better off folding than paying to see that the other guy has it?

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]

If you can believe it, he was a worst player than me.
He didn't bet until I went all-in. He was slowplaying it for all it was worth.


[/ QUOTE ]

So he limped with KK and let you in? Okay, I take back what I said, you played it fine. My only complaint is that you pushed it in too early. Are you saying he was giving you free cards the whole time?

Let this be a lesson to people wanting to learn NL Hold'em. Do not slowplay big pairs.

My apologies for being hard on you. Also, seek that guy out.

[ QUOTE ]

But the point is that if you see four to a straight or four to a flush aren't you better off folding than paying to see that the other guy has it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Four to a flush, of course, unless you have a good card in the flush suit. I'd never call an all-in bet without the nut flush card with four on the board.

As for a straight, if it was a mid-high straight or if it was 2345, I'd fold. But if I played the kings as I did in my thought experiment above, I'd have to call your all-in bet because there's no way you should be in there with a 3. However, if I gave up a ton of free cards and never had a read on your hand - then yes, it should be folded.

Regards,

T

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If you can believe it, he was a worst player than me.
He didn't bet until I went all-in. He was slowplaying it for all it was worth.


[/ QUOTE ]

So he limped with KK and let you in? Okay, I take back what I said, you played it fine. My only complaint is that you pushed it in too early. Are you saying he was giving you free cards the whole time?

Let this be a lesson to people wanting to learn NL Hold'em. Do not slowplay big pairs.

My apologies for being hard on you. Also, seek that guy out.

[ QUOTE ]

But the point is that if you see four to a straight or four to a flush aren't you better off folding than paying to see that the other guy has it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Four to a flush, of course, unless you have a good card in the flush suit. I'd never call an all-in bet without the nut flush card with four on the board.

As for a straight, if it was a mid-high straight or if it was 2345, I'd fold. But if I played the kings as I did in my thought experiment above, I'd have to call your all-in bet because there's no way you should be in there with a 3. However, if I gave up a ton of free cards and never had a read on your hand - then yes, it should be folded.

Regards,

T

[/ QUOTE ]

Dear T,

Thanks for your reply. You make sense of a complex game /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Everything you say makes 100% sense.

D

Never slow-play big pairs, it will cost more money than it makes. He should have raised you out pre-flop. If your post said that you called a reasonable raise pre-flop and on the flop, I would have said you got lucky. But he let you outdraw him cheaply. You're all in on the turn should have been a red flag to him that he let you beat him and he should have folded. The true mark of any good player, limit or no limit, is the ability to release big hands when they're beat.

[ QUOTE ]
Never slow-play big pairs, it will cost more money than it makes. He should have raised you out pre-flop. If your post said that you called a reasonable raise pre-flop and on the flop, I would have said you got lucky. But he let you outdraw him cheaply. You're all in on the turn should have been a red flag to him that he let you beat him and he should have folded. The true mark of any good player, limit or no limit, is the ability to release big hands when they're beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi RB,
Thanks for the good advice /images/graemlins/smile.gif

D77

[Pov]

[ QUOTE ]
Never slow-play big pairs, it will cost more money than it makes. He should have raised you out pre-flop. If your post said that you called a reasonable raise pre-flop and on the flop, I would have said you got lucky. But he let you outdraw him cheaply. You're all in on the turn should have been a red flag to him that he let you beat him and he should have folded. The true mark of any good player, limit or no limit, is the ability to release big hands when they're beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I believe Doyle Brunson has said - don't go broke in an unraised pot.

Exactly.