sometimes fish are so random and pt stats mean nothing

[MINETZ]

this went through my head when the agressor in this hand's were 15/5/3.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($371.69)
BB ($49.45)
UTG ($99.75)
UTG+1 ($195)
MP1 ($255)
Hero ($254.20)
MP3 ($220.32)
CO ($248.35)
Button ($166)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls $2, CO calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB (poster) completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $8</font>, UTG calls $8, MP3 calls $8, CO calls $8, SB calls $8.

Flop: ($50) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets $15</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $47</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, MP3 calls $32.

Turn: ($144) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $95</font>, MP3 calls $95.

River: ($334) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
JesseBUSMC bets [$70].
whistlewing is all-In [$68.32]
JesseBUSMC shows [ Qh, Jd ] a straight, eight to queen.
whistlewing doesn't show [ Td, Th ] three of a kind, tens.
JesseBUSMC wins $1.68 from side pot #1 with a straight, eight to queen.
JesseBUSMC wins $467.64 from the main pot with a straight, eight to queen.
Final Pot: $334

[ArturiusX]

Pattern mapper /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[xorbie]

Let's see. There's a ton of limpers to him, he limps for half price. BB raises, everyone calls, he's got the best relative position and is getting like 8 million to 1, so he decides to see a flop. On the flop, BB inexamplicably checks, so we can rule out the apparent AA/KK. Now MP bets out like a pussy on a draw heavy board. SB probably reads him either for a draw or a weakish one pair hand like T9 or 78. MP calls, which again seems to put him on either a draw or something, because if he was beating weak looking for a raise he would surely come back over the top.

Turn brings a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, so SB figures he now has a pretty healthy semi-bluff against a hand with no /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, not to mention some good fold equity against the aforementioned 9T (with or without a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif) and even has a good amount of outs against a made lower flush. I'm not sure his turn play is all that solid, but normally it'll fold out weaker one pair hands, especially if MP isn't an idiot and has noticed how tight SB is.

To be honest, MP played this hand like much more of a fish than SB. You're being really results oriented. If MP folds the turn, it's an awesome read by SB.

[UOPokerPlayer]

I know this was just a hand with no real content, but how many hands do you guys need to have logged on an opponennt before you can take any meaning from their pt stats?

[LethalRose]

[ QUOTE ]
I know this was just a hand with no real content, but how many hands do you guys need to have logged on an opponennt before you can take any meaning from their pt stats?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you see them actually do something stupid no amt of hands can tell you how they play. Good runs happen.

[MINETZ]

this was very results oritented, this was more to point out that PT stats cant always tell you how someone is playing, would you ever think of someone with these stats doing this? Xorbie: I fully agree the other person in this hand played it horribly.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
I know this was just a hand with no real content, but how many hands do you guys need to have logged on an opponennt before you can take any meaning from their pt stats?

[/ QUOTE ]

I stop using PT stats to make reads (just for NL. They are still gold for limit) and my win rate almost doubled (smallish sampled 15K).

[GrunchCan]

I didn't read the whole post (sorry), but I wanted to respond to this. I guess this is my focus for the day.

[ QUOTE ]
sometimes fish are so random

[/ QUOTE ]

Never. A fish is never random. There is a reason for every play they make. The fact that we can't always percieve the reason, or that the reason is very often based on faulty or no logic makes it look like thier behavior is random. But I promise you, it's not. Even a reason like, "I don't know what I'm supposed to do, but I feel like raising here" is a non-random, deduced play that gives you insight in to thier tendancies. Learn and explot those tendancies. Blaming an overall loss on the randomness of your opponents is a cop-out that empowers you to not improve a critical aspect of your game.

[MINETZ]

obviously there is thinking behind what he did,but im saying following this players normal tendencies this seems like a play ud never see a player with these stats making