Organize a nation wide.........

[STLantny]

I was thinking today, for all intents and purposes (huh, you learn something new everyday), no country has offered any aid, that I can find at least. Chavez has offered oil to poor people for "relief", but he made that offer before the hurricane, and is just hoping to look good now. Do you guys think there are many people that agree that we should be trying to help the world, when we receive little in return (this fact, just being amplified in the current situation). What kind of support, even extremism, do you think a nation-wide, suck it up, do the dirty work, boycott, of a major product, ie oil, foreign made goods, (something that WILL hurt us to lose in the short term), until we stop hemmoraging money to every other nation that cant fend for themselves?






PS if this is a politics thread, then Ill delete it, but I think this is more of a logistics question, rather than politics, because I would be interested in organizing some kind of effort.

[tbach24]

A lot of countries will be giving us our own money back...

[MrTrik]

Our US senator Norm Coleman was asked this exact question today on a radio show I was listening to.

He said a lot of stuff. But, his point was that we have been the caretaker of many coutries especially Europe for a while now. He said the French, Germans, and others don't spend on defence or military. They don't spend on world relief sorts of things like the USA.

He said we invest in that stuff because we have the economic means to do so. There simply is no other superpower in the world today and so we do it to the extent we have the means. He also made some good points about the importance of the global economy to our standard of life.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree on this. I sometimes get irked by efforts to do some things abroad when we have quite a few of our own problems including inexpensive housing, healthcare, and otherwise. But he did make some good points. (BTW I am in no way bashing his ideas ... I voted for him as I did for dubya.)

[STLantny]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of countries will be giving us our own money back...

[/ QUOTE ]


That may be true, but I really havent read/heard/saw much abotu any foreign aid we are receiving? Doesnt that piss anyone besides me off? Im livid that we are wasting so much money, trying to be a cure-all, and dont even get the respect of the nations that rely on us to survive.

[STLantny]

[ QUOTE ]
Our US senator Norm Coleman was asked this exact question today on a radio show I was listening to.

He said a lot of stuff. But, his point was that we have been the caretaker of many coutries especially Europe for a while now. He said the French, Germans, and others don't spend on defence or military. They don't spend on world relief sorts of things like the USA.

He said we invest in that stuff because we have the economic means to do so. There simply is no other superpower in the world today and so we do it to the extent we have the means. He also made some good points about the importance of the global economy to our standard of life.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree on this. I sometimes get irked by efforts to do some things abroad when we have quite a few of our own problems including inexpensive housing, healthcare, and otherwise. But he did make some good points. (BTW I am in no way bashing his ideas ... I voted for him as I did for dubya.)

[/ QUOTE ]


This, in my opinion, crosses party lines, all throughout the last 60 years or so, republicans and democrats, have handed out foreign aid, which doesnt bother me, as long as my daily life isnt affected, and I dont have to worry about it much. This is selfish, I dont care. Now, I have to pay 3$+ in gas, not to mention rebuilding etc. And we are spending trillions, fixing AIDS in Africa, trying to bring peace to the Mid east, etc. I say its time to be true Americans for awhile, and be selfish bastards until our country can get itself back on its feet, and all this internal strife (economically, politically, etc) is sorted out.

[RacersEdge]

I'll just say this,

intensive purposes = intents and purposes /images/graemlins/wink.gif

AID would be nice, AID would be welcome, but we are the richest country on the planet, and frankly, we do not need foriegn AID.

What we need is for the goverment to step the [censored] up, get there ass in gear and send the [censored] military into the hurricane zone.

NOW.

I'm getting more and more pissed off by the minute watching the news. Where the [censored] is the Navy? Where the [censored] are the Marines? Army? Airforce? Where the [censored] is everybody???. And don't [censored] say 'overseas', we have LOTS of military not deployed overseas.

Why the [censored] hasn't a barge or something similar been put into place and sunk to stop the breeches in the [censored] levees?

Why the [censored], two days later, am I still seeing children on my TV walking around with seemingly no help?

Who the [censored] cares if you are the richest nation in the world if you can't pull your heads out of your ass, recognize the MASSIVE need of these people, MOBILIZE and HELP THEM??

I'm sick of seeing local agencies having to drive 1000+ miles to go and help when the military could have launched a MASSIVE effort hours ago, if not days ago, been there already.

/rant

[STLantny]

[ QUOTE ]
AID would be nice, AID would be welcome, but we are the richest country on the planet, and frankly, we do not need foriegn AID.

What we need is for the goverment to step the [censored] up, get there ass in gear and send the [censored] military into the hurricane zone.

NOW.

I'm getting more and more pissed off by the minute watching the news. Where the [censored] is the Navy? Where the [censored] are the Marines? Army? Airforce? Where the [censored] is everybody???. And don't [censored] say 'overseas', we have LOTS of military not deployed overseas.

Why the [censored] hasn't a barge or something similar been put into place and sunk to stop the breeches in the [censored] levees?

Why the [censored], two days later, am I still seeing children on my TV walking around with seemingly no help?

Who the [censored] cares if you are the richest nation in the world if you can't pull your heads out of your ass, recognize the MASSIVE need of these people, MOBILIZE and HELP THEM??

I'm sick of seeing local agencies having to drive 1000+ miles to go and help when the military could have launched a MASSIVE effort hours ago, if not days ago, been there already.

/rant

[/ QUOTE ]


Rich, I agree with everything you say, but the fact is one of the MAJOR reasons we cant get our [censored] in gear is the fact that we dont have enough resources to organize things efficiently. Where are our resources? In africa, helping someone who is going to die from AIDS.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AID would be nice, AID would be welcome, but we are the richest country on the planet, and frankly, we do not need foriegn AID.

What we need is for the goverment to step the [censored] up, get there ass in gear and send the [censored] military into the hurricane zone.

NOW.

I'm getting more and more pissed off by the minute watching the news. Where the [censored] is the Navy? Where the [censored] are the Marines? Army? Airforce? Where the [censored] is everybody???. And don't [censored] say 'overseas', we have LOTS of military not deployed overseas.

Why the [censored] hasn't a barge or something similar been put into place and sunk to stop the breeches in the [censored] levees?

Why the [censored], two days later, am I still seeing children on my TV walking around with seemingly no help?

Who the [censored] cares if you are the richest nation in the world if you can't pull your heads out of your ass, recognize the MASSIVE need of these people, MOBILIZE and HELP THEM??

I'm sick of seeing local agencies having to drive 1000+ miles to go and help when the military could have launched a MASSIVE effort hours ago, if not days ago, been there already.

/rant

[/ QUOTE ]


Rich, I agree with everything you say, but the fact is one of the MAJOR reasons we cant get our [censored] in gear is the fact that we dont have enough resources to organize things efficiently. Where are our resources? In africa, helping someone who is going to die from AIDS.

[/ QUOTE ]

And don't [censored] say 'overseas', we have LOTS of military not deployed overseas.

I live next to an airfield. It's not [censored] deserted. Don't give me this crap.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of countries will be giving us our own money back...

[/ QUOTE ]

I am assuming you are meaning in the form interest. For example, the U.S. has a lot of pull with the IMF and World Bank. But, maybe that is not what you meant.

A little off topic: What % of our foreign aid goes to Israel? Obviously it is a lot. And this "aid" does go to America because it is buying U.S. corporation helicopters, etc...

craig

[STLantny]

What you dont understand from my post, just becasue we have people sitting there, does not mean we have the means or the infrastructure to get them organized and where they need to be quickly. If we had the excess money to organize, build the infrastucture to deal with things like this quickly, and efficiently, Id have no trouble with helping other countries, but unfortunetly, as you can see we dont. Just because we have the manpower doesnt mean [censored].

[Voltron87]

in terms of % of GDP, the US does not give as much money as many other countries.

the idea that the US is hemorraging money into the world economy is a joke.

makes you think about the economic cost of the war in iraq,
so far over 100 billion and its not close to over or going well.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Where the [censored] is the Navy

[/ QUOTE ] There are 4 Navy vessels headed there right now. National Guard numbers will be 20,000 by this weekend.

[ QUOTE ]
What you dont understand from my post, just becasue we have people sitting there, does not mean we have the means or the infrastructure to get them organized and where they need to be quickly. If we had the excess money to organize, build the infrastucture to deal with things like this quickly, and efficiently, Id have no trouble with helping other countries, but unfortunetly, as you can see we dont. Just because we have the manpower doesnt mean [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a bunch of crap. Infrastructure? Resources? WTF do you think the military is?

The only issue here is PRIORITES and sometimes, ours suck.

[STLantny]

Aid in dollar amounts:

Net ODA in 2004 as US dollar amounts Country Aid amount by dollars
Source: Official Development Assistance increases further - but 2006 targets still a challenge, OECD, April 11, 2005



United States 18,999
Japan 8,859
France 8,475
United Kingdom 7,836
Germany 7,497
Netherlands 4,235
Sweden 2,704
Spain 2,547
Canada 2,537
Italy 2,484
Norway 2,200
Denmark 2,025
Australia 1,465
Belgium 1,452
Switzerland 1,379
Portugal 1,028
Austria 691
Finland 655
Ireland 586
Greece 464
Luxembourg 241
New Zealand 210



I could give two shits abotu percentages. Simple fact is, we give hte most, by a long shot. But I agree, Iraq is just one more situation that adds to the situation.

[STLantny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What you dont understand from my post, just becasue we have people sitting there, does not mean we have the means or the infrastructure to get them organized and where they need to be quickly. If we had the excess money to organize, build the infrastucture to deal with things like this quickly, and efficiently, Id have no trouble with helping other countries, but unfortunetly, as you can see we dont. Just because we have the manpower doesnt mean [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a bunch of crap. Infrastructure? Resources? WTF do you think the military is?

The only issue here is PRIORITES and sometimes, ours suck.

[/ QUOTE ]


So where are our priorities?

[craig r]

I think it is time to move the thread. I hate the politics section on here. And this is obviously a political thread.

craig

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Where the [censored] is the Navy

[/ QUOTE ] There are 4 Navy vessels headed there right now. National Guard numbers will be 20,000 by this weekend.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] this weekend. Where are the hundreds of choppers in the air airlifting people the [censored] out of there?

Why can't we do both?!?!?

Are we poor or something? Did we get stupid and pay off the debt recently?

ACT LIKE THE BIGGEST [censored] COUNTRY ON EARTH WHEN IT MATTERS

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What you dont understand from my post, just becasue we have people sitting there, does not mean we have the means or the infrastructure to get them organized and where they need to be quickly. If we had the excess money to organize, build the infrastucture to deal with things like this quickly, and efficiently, Id have no trouble with helping other countries, but unfortunetly, as you can see we dont. Just because we have the manpower doesnt mean [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a bunch of crap. Infrastructure? Resources? WTF do you think the military is?

The only issue here is PRIORITES and sometimes, ours suck.

[/ QUOTE ]


So where are our priorities?

[/ QUOTE ]

Manning bases. Training. Sitting on their [censored] thumbs evidently. We have hundreds of thousands of troops right here at home. No everyone in the [censored] country is overseas.

[STLantny]

I honestly didnt want this to degenerate into a politics thread (funny, I know), but I just wanted to get an idea of if a widespread course of action could be taken, and would it do any good.

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
United States 18,999
Japan 8,859
France 8,475
United Kingdom 7,836


I could give two shits abotu percentages. Simple fact is, we give hte most, by a long shot.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you realise how stupid that is? You only give the most because you're the biggest, if someone was to cut up the US into segments each the size (in terms of population) of the UK, each one would only give half as much as the UK. Just because you happen to be one huge country doesn't give you any right to go around saying you are the most generous nation.

[STLantny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
United States 18,999
Japan 8,859
France 8,475
United Kingdom 7,836


I could give two shits abotu percentages. Simple fact is, we give hte most, by a long shot.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you realise how stupid that is? You only give the most because you're the biggest, if someone was to cut up the US into segments each the size (in terms of population) of the UK, each one would only give half as much as the UK. Just because you happen to be one huge country doesn't give you any right to go around saying you are the most generous nation.

[/ QUOTE ]


I dont care if we are the most generous nation around, I dont want to be. Fact is, we give hte most overall dollars out. Dollars that can help us A LOT. Its time to start looking out for our nation. Who made the rule that we HAVE to give ANYTHING out, quit assuming we owe anything a DAMN thing.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Crossposting my post from politics. So many have an opinion on this without looking into the facts:

These threads are so silly, you don't know how these things work. 10 and 20 years ago (earthquake Mexico etc.) disaster relief turned out to in many instances create chaos since so many wanted to help in so many ways. Therefore, nowadays it is usual that the government (in this case US) specifies its needs which it itself cannot fullfil and request this aid from UN and other nations. You really think any nation would not send blankets if requested????

US gave aid to Iran after the Bam earthquake. Iran has offered help to US now. Most countries are able to put away political differences in these situations.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]

I dont care if we are the most generous nation around, I dont want to be. Fact is, we give hte most overall dollars out. Dollars that can help us A LOT. Its time to start looking out for our nation. Who made the rule that we HAVE to give ANYTHING out.

[/ QUOTE ]


you started a thread asking why no other countries gave aid to the US. i really dont understand, this post im replying to and op are extremely contradictory.

the us gains so much from the world ecomony, thats a pragmatic reason to give aid. its economic supremacy is dependent on globalization, other countries resources, trade, all that.


and the idea that "i dont give a [censored] about the percentages"


LOLLERSKATES

[fluff]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Our US senator Norm Coleman was asked this exact question today on a radio show I was listening to.

He said a lot of stuff. But, his point was that we have been the caretaker of many coutries especially Europe for a while now. He said the French, Germans, and others don't spend on defence or military. They don't spend on world relief sorts of things like the USA.

He said we invest in that stuff because we have the economic means to do so. There simply is no other superpower in the world today and so we do it to the extent we have the means. He also made some good points about the importance of the global economy to our standard of life.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree on this. I sometimes get irked by efforts to do some things abroad when we have quite a few of our own problems including inexpensive housing, healthcare, and otherwise. But he did make some good points. (BTW I am in no way bashing his ideas ... I voted for him as I did for dubya.)

[/ QUOTE ]


This, in my opinion, crosses party lines, all throughout the last 60 years or so, republicans and democrats, have handed out foreign aid, which doesnt bother me, as long as my daily life isnt affected, and I dont have to worry about it much. This is selfish, I dont care. Now, I have to pay 3$+ in gas, not to mention rebuilding etc. And we are spending trillions, fixing AIDS in Africa, trying to bring peace to the Mid east, etc. I say its time to be true Americans for awhile, and be selfish bastards until our country can get itself back on its feet, and all this internal strife (economically, politically, etc) is sorted out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah! Gas is freaking $3/gallon, so let's stick it to those pathetic starving, AIDS infected Africans, and to Burmese Nike factory workers subsiding on $0.50/day.

Sarcasm aside, everyone always makes a big deal about the amount of foreign aid. It's a freaking ~0.8% of the budget (approx $19 billion in 2004, budget was $2.34 trillion). Or an estimated 13 cents/person/day. Drink one less soda a week.

Furthermore, you don't understand the nature of aid. Only a small amount of it is purely humanitarian. Some of it is so that the local dictator can buy US military equipment that are being phased out, and he inturn evicts a bunch of indigenous people so that ExxonMobil can start pumping oil. So in other words, it is being reinvested for the benefit of the US.