15-30 Hand

[Jeffage]

Still learning, so forgive me if this is basic. 15-30 on Party. I have 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif in a 6 handed game. I'm on the button. One limper, I call (automatic raise...or do you only raise this if you can build a volume pot), SB calls, BB checks. Flop comes 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif giving me big trips. SB bets, fold to me, I raise, SB reraises and I call. Turn comes the 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif giving me low backup. He bets, I raise, he reraises, I call. River is the Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif. He bets, I call. Comments? Too much on the turn?

Jeff

[IronDragon1]

Especially at level where players are more apt to be trying to be tricky I'd just grin and bear it (call).

[Buzz]

Jeffage - Wow. Really looks like SB has a full house when he re-raises on the second betting round, doesn't it? Maybe nines full of fours, maybe fours full of nines.

If that's true, you're hoping to pair your ace or ten on the turn and feel enigmatic about pairing your deuce.

But you miss on the turn and SB bets right into you again. You do have a low draw and trip nines. But unless the river card is a ten, it doesn't look as though you have much of a chance to scoop. An ace makes aces full for you but might give your opponent a low. A deuce might be a disaster for you. Sixteen cards, fives, sixes, sevens, and eights, make you the nut low. But mostly, if your oppoennt does have a flopped full house, you're taking it on the chin.

[ QUOTE ]
Too much on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

For sure.

In my humble opinion. I think your hand/board fit in this betting sequence rates no more than a call on the turn.

Buzz

[L0QTiS]

I don't play anywhere close to this limit, but I think I slow down after villian's 3-bet on the flop (unless this guy is a complete donk). You're probably up against 9xxx 94xx or 44xx and given your weak kicker, your set isn't that strong so you're drawing for a boat. Granted, I've seen trickier players play big overpairs the same way, I still don't like being in this situation with a hand like this.

I do like the raise on the flop, but I call the turn and call the river - had your low hit on the river, turn it back up and raise.

[chaos]

[ QUOTE ]
and given your weak kicker, your set isn't that strong

[/ QUOTE ]
His kicker is an Ace

[Ironman]

I have to agree with the others.

The re-raise on the flop tells me he has a good hand.

Once you see the re-raise on the turn, I would have to say he flopped the full house or has 9 good kicker (might not be as good as your kicker).

I check call the river.

By the way, I wouldn't have raised pre-flop either in this case.

Dave

[ QUOTE ]
Still learning, so forgive me if this is basic. 15-30 on Party. I have 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif in a 6 handed game. I'm on the button. One limper, I call (automatic raise...or do you only raise this if you can build a volume pot), SB calls, BB checks. Flop comes 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif giving me big trips. SB bets, fold to me, I raise, SB reraises and I call. Turn comes the 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif giving me low backup. He bets, I raise, he reraises, I call. River is the Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif. He bets, I call. Comments? Too much on the turn?

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still learning too but I'd likely raise pre-flop from the button with this hand. It seems to me that your turn raise is fine. You are representing strength, which you definitely have here, but him re-raising sounds to me like he flopped 9s over 4s. You should see the river since you can still scoop the pot or get half, but then the river bet by him probably means you should fold. Then again this is something I have a problem with. In this spot I might convince myself he has a similar hand to my own and make a crying call here.

[Jeffage]

Thanks for the responses (and more are welcome). My opponent showed A965 of various suits so we chopped the pot. How out of line was his turn play (or was it not out of line at all)?

Thanks,
Jeff

[L0QTiS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and given your weak kicker, your set isn't that strong

[/ QUOTE ]
His kicker is an Ace

[/ QUOTE ]

Noted. Don't know how I missed that.

[anatta]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the responses (and more are welcome). My opponent showed A965 of various suits so we chopped the pot. How out of line was his turn play (or was it not out of line at all)?

Thanks,
Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

When you raise on the button, your opponent puts you on AA or A2. Since you raised the flop, he is putting you on AAXX. He is having difficulty putting you on two other cards (The "XX" in AAXX, A2XX) that beat his high. Can you really have exactly 44 or 94 for your flop raise? No, its more likely in his mind you have AA on the flop, and on the turn - AA2X.

Keep in mind that guys will represent trips a lot in 0-8, especially short handed on a flop with one or no low cards. Standard bluff, so he is putting you on AA plus a low draw on the turn reading him for a trips bluff.

[Ironman]

That was not out of line at all.

I would have played A 9, 4 4, 9 4, that same way.

Dave

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
How out of line was his turn play (or was it not out of line at all)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff - Hard to know what he was thinking. He evidently put you on a lower hand than he held. When you raise the flop but don't cap when he re-raises, he might figure you for trip nines with a lower kicker than his ace. He also could figure your flop raise, as Anatta suggests, represents a pair of aces.

Then when you raise his turn bet, he might not adjust his thinking. Or he might think you have trip nines with a low draw. And when you don't cap the turn, he may think his assessment is correct - that you don't have a full house yet.

But then he doesn't back off after the queen on the river. If he thought you had trip nines plus a weaker kicker than an ace, you'd think the queen should have him concerned.

Have you previously folded under pressure late in a hand? (In other words, is he possibly playing you for weak/tight?) Have you only been playing ace-deuce hands, in which case he might put you on ace-deuce for two of your cards, figure you must have A29X, and hope if you didn't make a full house on the river, you might give up a hand that would tie him? - I'm grabbing at straws ttying to make sense of his play.

Or maybe he simply thinks his hand, trip nines with an ace kicker, is better than it actually is.

I wouldn't say his play is "out of line," but it seems very aggressive and not very cautious. "Reckless" is too strong because he might have something in mind that we can't pick up from this one post - maybe something about the way you've played previous hands, like maybe he just thinks you're inept and ripe for plucking.

Hard to say. Maybe "reckless" is the correct word to describe his play. Whatever. He certainly provides action. (But then so did you).

Just my opinion.

Buzz