I keep paying people off...

[Mr. Curious]

I've gotten into a funk lately where I don't believe that other people have better hands than me. Whether in limit or no limit, I'm trying to ride an edge that I think is there, but really isn't. I took some time off, but it hasn't helped and now I am starting to play passive too. I've lost the taste for poker.

Help /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[beekeeper]

Maybe you should try to keep track of the context within which this is happening. Have you had a run of bad luck where you have the best hand going into the turn and someone sticks around long enough to catch a higher pair, for instance? Or are you starting with the worst hand and just misreading how your opponents are playing their hand?

Maybe by defining your problem further you could close this hole.

[bernie]

On another note: How's the dealing coming along?

b

[Mr. Curious]

[ QUOTE ]
On another note: How's the dealing coming along?

b

[/ QUOTE ]

No jobs yet. Probably for the best as I will be needing some shoulder work done and you can't deal (well) with only one hand, especially when it is the pitching hand...

[Mr. Curious]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you should try to keep track of the context within which this is happening. Have you had a run of bad luck where you have the best hand going into the turn and someone sticks around long enough to catch a higher pair, for instance? Or are you starting with the worst hand and just misreading how your opponents are playing their hand?

Maybe by defining your problem further you could close this hole.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not usually have the best hand when this is going on. Somewhere inside of me, I know that I am beat, but for some reason am unwilling to fold.

I think it started with a downswing at NL, worsened while playing limit, and has continued through a string of cold cards in tournaments.

It is most likely a bad run spiraling into bad play due to a lack of discipline.

Edit: And of course, getting depressed about it just makes it worse. I'm working on my mental state and I think once I get a non-poker issue handled, I'll be able to right the poker ship too.

[peritonlogon]

I must admit that I find myself falling into this trap from time to time. It can be a good habit (calling down in general) in Stud and at Pacific Poker, but in any moderatly tough game you have give people credit. One thing that may be happening is that you're playing more "problem hands" out of position (KTo, Ax and the like) or calling the turn with a pocket pair than lower 2 board cards. Start by not even entering the action with a hand that is liable to be dominated.

I know after multitabling some really weak nl tables I start looking at K5s as a good starting hand from any position and then my pair of kings looks good (because at really weak nl games it often is when you call)..... Fight the habit of making early plays that result in compounding errors. Then your trust in yourself and your reads will come back quickly because your top pairs will win more often (as will your middle).

[beekeeper]

[ QUOTE ]

It is most likely a bad run spiraling into bad play due to a lack of discipline.



[/ QUOTE ]

I've recently made some bad calls on the river because I didn't believe the better. This is a result of playing against some very loose players, and seeing them show down weak hands, especially after I've thrown away what turns out to be the winning hand preflop because of the aggressive raising. The times when I decide to make a stand are the times when my opponents actually hold a hand. I found myself in a similar situation as you.

A few weeks ago I decided that regardless of how my opponents were playing, I had to go back to very fundamental, tight aggressive play, and just console myself with the "in the long run you'll be a winner" refrain when my correct decisions didn't work out for me in that session. I can't say yet that I've started winning--over the last 3 weeks I'm just a little ahead--but I do feel in control again, and this makes me feel like I will eventually win at the same rate as I was.

One thing I found in assessing my play was that I had started gambling more because the poor play of my opponents made it seem as if the game was more luck than anything else. But my hand selection was poor, and I wasn't paying enough attention to position, so I found myself constantly with a lukewarm flop, chasing or having to make a difficult decision. I've been throwing away a lot of interesting, but ultimately weak hands when I have poor position, and that alone has reduced my variance, which in turn has given me more control--of myself and how the table perceives my play--in the hands I do play.

So I would recommend that you tighten up just to reenforce your sound poker skills, and slowly work in some of your more creative plays. An analogy I would use would be, if you found yourself with an allergic reaction, you'd have to strictly limit your food choices, and slowly reintroduce other choices until you identified what was causing the allergy. That's something you could try with your game.

Don't give up! Poker's too much fun to give up. Good luck. H

[Mikey]

Mike Gallo wrote something of this in a newsletter, check the archives for it.

[vexvelour]

This has got to be a psycological thing with you. I don't see how you could 'lose' poker, although I do know what you mean. Perhaps there are other things going on in your life right now that affect your play and cause you to do things you normally wouldn't?

I go through very short phases of betting scared/ and then betting retarded....until I find the middle ground. It happens sometimes. When I start feeling like I'm 'losing' my poker game, I go back to my favorite book until my confidence is back. Another confidence booster is to play a little in smaller limits and then go back.

Hope this helps, just some thoughts.

I used to do this a lot. Ive fixed it though, and heres how;

Every time the board pairs, if you miss a bet because you are afraid of quads, what happens? Well the accumulated missed bets adds up to way more losses than the qauds' losses would bring.

Now take the other side of things, I suspect one of the main reasons you call when you do a read (a correct one) but dont really believe it, is because you dont want to be bluffed out of the pot. I took a step back and considered how often this would be going on in comparison to how often id truly be bluffed out. It costs more to call all bluffs than to lose to some bluffs.

[ QUOTE ]
It costs more to call all bets than to lose to some bluffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need a number on the "some". Consider that folding the best hand costs you the entire pot while calling with a worse hand only costs you a single bet. You need to be able to estimate how likely it is that your opponent is bluffing. Oh, and btw, FYP. (If you called all bluffs, you would be a winner).

To the OP: although wanting to call bets a lot because you refuse to give up the pot would be a psychological leak, losing because of calling what you believe are bluffs could just be a byproduct of variance. If you are getting 10:1 odds on a river call, you only have to be right 1/11 times to break even. You will still lose 10/11 times.

[Mr. Curious]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are getting 10:1 odds on a river call, you only have to be right 1/11 times to break even. You will still lose 10/11 times.

[/ QUOTE ]

I forgot about that side of calling on the river based on pot odds. Thanks!

Yea I might have phrased that poorly. If you have correct pot odds, considering your implied odds, you should act accordingly. But if all you have is a bluff to beat his potential bluff, and you are completely ignoring the pot and the board, that's no good.

[Mr. Curious]

Well, I think I figured out two big reasons that I had so much trouble.

#1 I was afraid to play at that limit. I have the bank roll for 10/20, but had been in a downswing and felt the pain of losing a $200 pot, instead of looking at it as a 10 BB pot and considering long term money.

#2 I thought everyone was trying to push me around. I'm sure this was a side effect of the downswing and just turned me into a donating calling station.

I played in the same game tonight with these realizations and did much better.

[CCovington]

I notice that sometimes I tend to pay people off when I suspect I'm beat a little more than I would like.
I tend to start doing this after I make one great read on my opponent, end up catching him bluffing, take down a big pot.
Then, in the back of my mind I start to think how wonderful that was, and how happy I am I didn't lay that hand down.
So the next time I have a decent hand but think I'm beat I tend to pay off.
That's not good /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[scalf]

/images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif paying off too much:

you are paranoid..

lol

but then; you knew everyone knew that

lol

gl

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif