OESD meets heavy turn action.... [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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PSW

08-31-2005, 03:59 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG is a 85/21/1.37 after 69 hands and can lose a lot of bets after the flop.

UTG+1 is a much more ratinoal 21/8.9/1.21 after 109 hands.

Comments on all streets welcome but specifically the Turn. Just keepa calling or something else?

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, UTG raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Am I against a set or could UTG really play 79?

River: (15.66 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises...

Final Pot: 21.66 BB

W. Deranged

08-31-2005, 04:03 PM

I'd strongly consider raising the flop for a couple of reasons:

1. Free-card on the turn.

2. Cleaning up some pair outs. In a short, small pot, the bettor does not need to have much to bet here. Some decent percentage of the time you could win by pairing here, and raising maximizes that opportunity.

3 (Somewhat contradictory to 1 but highly player/read dependent): Open up the possibility of winning the pot uncontested on the turn.

As played, I don't see you folding at any point prior to the river. I'd actually often raise the turn with the plan of showing down my pair of eights for free on the river or continuing to bet if I hit my straight. Raising the turn offers protection value if we are ahead and may encourage a weak player to fold.

private joker

08-31-2005, 04:06 PM

Fold the turn when it's 2 back to you. You're not getting the odds (I think it's like 9.66:2 for 8 outs at best), and if you're up against 97 then you have 3 outs to a chop. Just fold and move on to the next hand.

PSW

08-31-2005, 04:33 PM

I don't think folding when it's two back to me is right, but that is why I posted. The range of hands he could go crazy with include sets and any possible two pair hand, along w/ lower straights in addition to the nut straight. I don't think I need to discount my hand that much, but again, it's the question I want clairified.

Thanks

KDawgCometh

08-31-2005, 04:40 PM

I'm folding the turn when its two back to me. okay, UTG can go crazy with a lot of hands, but I don't think that utg+1 is gonna go crazy with that many hands that are worth calling two cold here getting 9-2 with probably 6 clean outs and two tainted outs

PTjvs

08-31-2005, 04:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm folding the turn when its two back to me. okay, UTG can go crazy with a lot of hands, but I don't think that utg+1 is gonna go crazy with that many hands that are worth calling two cold here getting 9-2 with probably 6 clean outs and two tainted outs

[/ QUOTE ]

It sure SEEMS like UTG+1 flopped a small set, but you can certainly argue hero to have as many as 7 tainted outs.

jvs

PSW

08-31-2005, 05:04 PM

Well, I am not too worried about UTG+1. Sure, he has a set but 77 doesn't seem that likely to go nuts on the Turn, I think my outs are good against him too.

private joker

08-31-2005, 07:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]

It sure SEEMS like UTG+1 flopped a small set, but you can certainly argue hero to have as many as 7 tainted outs.

jvs

[/ QUOTE ]

But he's getting 9.66:2 -- not even 5:1. I'd like at least 8 clean outs to call 2 cold on the turn with the possibility of it getting capped behind me.

PSW

08-31-2005, 09:25 PM

OK, thanks folks. I appreciate the feedback.

I did get lucky and win the hand. UTG showed J5 for a raggity 2 pair and UTG+1 showed AA and should be cursing himself for limping into the pot.

psw