What's Wrong With ATo?

I'm at 25k hands and I'm slightly down, so I was looking through my PT database to see if I could find any leaks in my game. One thing that stuck out is that ATo is my losingest hand by far. How do you guys typically play this hand? I thought my play was pretty standard, I usually open raise from any position, and raise in late position with 1-2 limpers. I'll typically fold when facing 2 bets. Postflop I'll play the same way I play most overcards, I'll fire on most flops and then play from there. I'm sorry for the vague post but I guess what I'm looking for is to see if anyone treats this hand differently than other typical raising hands. Should I be playing this hand tighter than most? Is 25k a large enough sample size to even start doing analyses like this? I'd appreciate any advice anyone has to offer.

[TStoneMBD]

no, 25k hands is not nearly enough hands to start analyzing whether certain hands are profitable or not. you really need closer to a million hands for this depending on how accurate you want to be.

[DaSpade]

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no, 25k hands is not nearly enough hands to start analyzing whether certain hands are profitable or not. you really need closer to a million hands for this depending on how accurate you want to be.

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Right on. FWIW, My AKs was a loser till about 17k hands.

[RunDownHouse]

My AKs is a fairly big loser, considering, over about 10k for August. Them's the breaks.

[paco]

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I'm at 25k hands and I'm slightly down, so I was looking through my PT database to see if I could find any leaks in my game. One thing that stuck out is that ATo is my losingest hand by far. How do you guys typically play this hand? I thought my play was pretty standard, I usually open raise from any position, and raise in late position with 1-2 limpers. I'll typically fold when facing 2 bets. . Postflop I'll play the same way I play most overcards, I'll fire on most flops and then play from there. I'm sorry for the vague post but I guess what I'm looking for is to see if anyone treats this hand differently than other typical raising hands. Should I be playing this hand tighter than most? Is 25k a large enough sample size to even start doing analyses like this? I'd appreciate any advice anyone has to offer.

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I agree with the posters here--25K not too much. My AQs was negative at 50k hands while all other aces down to A8 were deep in the black (just a weird anamoly on an obviously profitable hand).

Nonetheless, if you're getting into situations where you are dominated it can be extremely costly, even when it happens infrequently, because you're most likely paying off the whole way. I think folding should be the default unless you're up against a loose raiser then r/r is correct. I guess this might be what you're already doing, but couldn't tell exactly from your phrasing. "I typically fold" could mean I play it a little under half the time facing 2 cold, ljust like "i'm about even" is usually a LT poker loser.

[wackjob]

I play A10o more aggessively than most and it seems to work. I am closing on 600 hands of A10o & it is winning as much as AQo right now(obviously just a sample size issue). I think A10o is undervalued by most in the SH game.

VS a LAG I am MORE tight with A10. VS a TAG I am more aggressive and loose with A10.

[DaSpade]

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VS a LAG I am MORE tight with A10. VS a TAG I am more aggressive and loose with A10.

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Care to elaborate?

[w_alloy]

I made a post with 3 ATo hands yesterday. Its my worst loser too, but over an even smaller sample size.

[wackjob]

LAG: going to raise all kinds of crap & go the river every time. A10 has showdown value, but vs a LAG they will call you down with any pair any draw and a good A. Thus I feel that a LAG will be able to call down(with the best hand) many more times than a TAG would and feel that A10 is a less valuable hand vs a LAG.

TAG: has tight opening hands, but is able to fold. UTG will raise AJo, if I 3-bet it is not likely to be capped. When the flop misses your TAG, he is likely to peel & fold UI OR straight out fold the flop because he fears he is WB to a big PP or a better A. LAGs don't do this - they find showdown with any decent A the majority of the time. Also vs a TAG, I think I can fold out smaller PP's with either straight aggression or a little ticky play. Standard TAG would raise 66 & 77 UTG, when facing a 3-bet from another TAG they are not feeling good. Many flops with an A or K or all broadway and the TAG will give up right there on the flop. I also will sometimes C/R the turn with nothing or a picked up draw or when a scary overcard hits and get a fold.

[wackjob]

I think I responded to your post as well Alloy. A10o is definately a hand that is a winner, but for me it is very hit or miss. If you marry A10o every time you play it & hit any piece, you are gonna get killed. Being able to drop this hand is key as is knowing when you 3-bet PF or fold PF.

[DaSpade]

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LAG: going to raise all kinds of crap & go the river every time. A10 has showdown value, but vs a LAG they will call you down with any pair any draw and a good A. Thus I feel that a LAG will be able to call down(with the best hand) many more times than a TAG would and feel that A10 is a less valuable hand vs a LAG.

TAG: has tight opening hands, but is able to fold. UTG will raise AJo, if I 3-bet it is not likely to be capped. When the flop misses your TAG, he is likely to peel & fold UI OR straight out fold the flop because he fears he is WB to a big PP or a better A. LAGs don't do this - they find showdown with any decent A the majority of the time. Also vs a TAG, I think I can fold out smaller PP's with either straight aggression or a little ticky play. Standard TAG would raise 66 & 77 UTG, when facing a 3-bet from another TAG they are not feeling good. Many flops with an A or K or all broadway and the TAG will give up right there on the flop. I also will sometimes C/R the turn with nothing or a picked up draw or when a scary overcard hits and get a fold.

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I agree playing against a LAG is more difficult than playing a TAG. BUT, ATo is a good hand over a LAG's range of hands and it is more often dominated by a TAG's range of hands.

And I disagree with your views on a LAG's/TAG's play.

[mcvalenc]

Like everyone's said, 25000 hands is nowhere near enough hands. For me, AK is down .07 after about 38000 hands.