View Full Version : PokerRoom.com Rake Structure Information
PokerRoom.com
08-31-2005, 12:48 PM
Sorry for posting this in numerous threads.
But it probably needed its own thread since so many people have been wondering.
.................................................. ........
Hi all,
Just a few clarifications regarding the recently updated PokerRoom.com rake structure.
But first of all I hope that all of you bear in mind that basing the rake on Big Blinds instead of Pot Size is an entirely new system designed to equalize the percentage of rake paid by players of various levels. We believe doing so is fair. However, as an entirely new system it may need certain adjustments not spotted in our extensive simulations.
1. The new rake structure tables have been available since yesterday. A link to the new structure was also posted in our news section yesterday.
2. We still incorporate a No Flop No Drop policy. Naturally. The tables will be updated to clarify that.
3. The overall drop in player points received is an effect we did not anticipate, intend nor did it surface during our extensive analysis. The Player Points system will therefore undergo an overhaul to adjust to the new structure and distribute more points.
4. Certainly certain games on certain levels will now have to pay a slightly higher rake than before, but do notice that others will pay way less. All heads-up games as well as high-stakes limit games are obvious examples of this.
5. The new, more dramatic cut-off point in paid rake can unfortunately lead to certain pots being raked around 9-10%. Do note however that these are extreme situations that only occur when a pot reaches a certain, exact size.
Examples:
Limit 5-10 players
1/2 LEVEL
Pot size $11 total rake $0.40
Pot size $12 total rake $1
Pot size $29 total rake $1
2/4 LEVEL
Pot size $23 total rake $0.80
Pot size $24 total rake $2
Pot size $48 total rake $2
Finally we do appreciate all of the feedback and comments received from all you 2+2 users.
Nothing beats hearing first-hand what the players themselves have to say.
C u at the tables!
PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them
Freudian
08-31-2005, 12:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
C u at the tables!
[/ QUOTE ]
Wanna bet?
Pokamastah
08-31-2005, 01:10 PM
fixed your post
[ QUOTE ]
Hi all,
Just a few clarifications regarding the recently updated PokerRoom.com rake structure.
But first of all I hope that all of you bear in mind that basing the rake on Big Blinds instead of Pot Size is an entirely new system designed to maximize the percentage of rake paid by players of various levels. We believe doing so is very profitable. However, as an entirely new system we may need to be slightly less greedy to keep our customers.
1. The new rake structure tables have been available since yesterday. A link to the new structure was also posted in our news section yesterday.
2. We still incorporate a No Flop No Drop policy. Naturally. The tables will be updated to clarify that.
3. The overall drop in player points received is an effect we hoped you would not notice, which was obvious without any analysis at all! The Player Points system will therefore undergo an overhaul to adjust to the new structure and distribute more points.
4. Certainly games on most levels will now have to pay a significantly higher rake than before, but do notice some others will pay somewhat less. All heads-up games as well as high-stakes limit games are obvious examples of this.
5. The new, more dramatic cut-off point in paid rake can unfortunately lead to many pots being raked around 9-10%.
Examples:
Limit 5-10 players
1/2 LEVEL
Pot size $11 total rake $0.40
Pot size $12 total rake $1
Pot size $29 total rake $1
2/4 LEVEL
Pot size $23 total rake $0.80
Pot size $24 total rake $2
Pot size $48 total rake $2
Finally we do appreciate all of the feedback and comments received from all you 2+2 users.
Nothing beats hearing first-hand what the players themselves have to say.
C u at the tables!
PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them
[/ QUOTE ]
HavanaBanana
08-31-2005, 01:25 PM
Is PokerRoom taking more rake out of the players now than before?
Of course they are, I am withdrawing as I speak.
Players must use their buying power to make the poker rooms understand that fcuking us over is not to their benefit.
ToT
PS: No pot should EVER be raked 10%
playersare
08-31-2005, 01:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
No pot should EVER be raked 10% unless the bonus is worth at least double the MGR in return
[/ QUOTE ]
FYP - this is why we play the party skins.
pokerroom's rake/bonus ratio used to be 140% which was already fairly mediocre vs. competition. now they are off my list completely.
Synergistic Explosions
08-31-2005, 01:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
5. The new, more dramatic cut-off point in paid rake can unfortunately lead to certain pots being raked around 9-10%. Do note however that these are extreme situations that only occur when a pot reaches a certain, exact size.
[/ QUOTE ]
But you are willing to leave it this way regardless?
Players aren't stupid. We realize that with the huge percentage gains of players at all the major sites that revenue has risen dramatically and profits have increased equally.
This being so, there is no reason to 'tax' players with higher rakes when in fact rakes should be decreasing to reflect the larger player base and increasing revenue and profits being realized by all the major sites.
To be finding ways to increase your revenues further at this point in time clearly shows what the future holds for players. It is not a good future. It will push us to seek alternative sites that will offer us fee based play instead of single game raked play.
For the good of your site you need to shift your strategy to increase revenue in other ways, not to tax the player further through increased rakes.
[ QUOTE ]
C u at the tables!
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope.
Siingo
08-31-2005, 01:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
5. The new, more dramatic cut-off point in paid rake can (un)fortunately lead to many pots being raked around 9-10%.
[/ QUOTE ]
You should delete this 2 letters....
Pokamastah
08-31-2005, 01:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Is PokerRoom taking more rake out of the players now than before?
Of course they are, I am withdrawing as I speak.
Players must use their buying power to make the poker rooms understand that fcuking us over is not to their benefit.
ToT
PS: No pot should EVER be raked 10%
[/ QUOTE ]
So I can rest assured that Prima is not planning any similar rake increase?
Sarge85
08-31-2005, 01:42 PM
ToT....
Didn't you have a post awhile back that outlined all the major sites rake structures.
Anychance you could repost/update that.
Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
flair1239
08-31-2005, 01:45 PM
It appears that 5/10 and above are unchanged. This only seems to effect the smaller limits.
Rockfish
08-31-2005, 01:47 PM
To reiterate what others have said so well, just in case you come back to this thread.
1) Pokerroom software is not very good (I'm being polite)
2) Pokerroom bonuses are not particularly generous. I passed on this last one because of point 1 and point 2 combined.
3) There are other alternatives to Pokerroom. Lots of them.
Recliner
08-31-2005, 01:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
C u at the tables!
[/ QUOTE ]
I was actually thinking about trying pokerroom out until this came up, and I play NL.
HavanaBanana
08-31-2005, 01:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
ToT....
Didn't you have a post awhile back that outlined all the major sites rake structures.
Anychance you could repost/update that.
Sarge
[/ QUOTE ]
Those are way old 2 years or so.
My last day with The Gaming Club Poker Room was today, I resigned to work more on my poker game, and you can rest assured that I will be vocal in fighting for the players rights.
I have no info on any PRIMA rake increase, but if they did they would go against my recomendation.
I created the HIGHVOLUME promotion so that players could get up to at least 80% rake back, hell maybe I'll sign up for it myself lol.
(I actually would, but am taking a vacation now.)
ToT
HavanaBanana
08-31-2005, 01:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
It appears that 5/10 and above are unchanged. This only seems to effect the smaller limits.
[/ QUOTE ]
The point is the principle and the overall picture, If you were living in a country where all the people without a last name starting with the same letter as yours had to pay double taxes would you think it was ok?
Besides, if they get away with something like this, then those limits will be next, trust me.
ToT
phredd
08-31-2005, 01:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
To reiterate what others have said so well, just in case you come back to this thread.
1) Pokerroom software is not very good (I'm being polite)
2) Pokerroom bonuses are not particularly generous. I passed on this last one because of point 1 and point 2 combined.
3) There are other alternatives to Pokerroom. Lots of them.
[/ QUOTE ]
1. True
2. Also True
3. True if and only if you use a PC. Mac users are screwed. However, I'm still not convinced that this change will make a dramatic difference for most players, except (as I mentioned elsewhere) micro-limit players, who are shut out of bonuses. They say they'll fix that, so we'll see. I don't see a need for any knee-jerking, though.
You suck I hate you and I hope you get hit by a bus...twice. Or wait. I dont even play at pokerroom. Just though Id jump on the pile.
Uglyowl
08-31-2005, 03:22 PM
First thought: "Just a bunch of people whining as usual" /images/graemlins/smile.gif
After looking at it: Holy crap! What a scam! Pokerroom is unreal. It is a shame I am part way to clearing a bonus and may just quit. What a scam!
Pokerroom, you have to be kidding.
Some examples from $2/4:
$0.80 rake on a $9 pot (no rake at Party)
$2 on $26 pot ($1 at Party)
Of course they conviently go from $.80 to $2 to screw you on bonus clearing as well.
gildwulf
08-31-2005, 03:26 PM
http://happypenguin.org/images/GreedySplash.png
I'm withdrawing all my money from your site.
Example:
pot $23 -> rake $0.8
pot $24 -> rake $2.0
How can you say shiiiit like that with a straight face, you punk?
2+2 wannabe
08-31-2005, 03:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm withdrawing all my money from your site.
Example:
pot $23 -> rake $0.8
pot $24 -> rake $2.0
How can you say shiiiit like that with a straight face, you punk?
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah this is retarded
The bottom line is your average rake per $2/4 LHE hand has increased.
My withdrawl has already hit my Neteller account.
No great loss, lots of other places to play.
Spook
08-31-2005, 03:40 PM
What is even worse than this is,
1) You did it right as you did your first reload bonus in five months.
2) You have yet to change the information on Rake in the easist to access place. Two clicks of the mouse, as opposed to having to find the FAQ.
Wyers
08-31-2005, 03:42 PM
PokerRoom was always a favourite of mine.
It was my first site when I was eeking it out and learning the game at your .25/.50 tables. I continue to play at your site from time to time and actually enjoy the software.
I predominantly play between 2/4 and 5/10 with some SnGs and MTTs thrown in for good measure.
Effective today I will be closing my account.
ZBTHorton
08-31-2005, 03:44 PM
Another customer lost here.
wateronrock
08-31-2005, 03:53 PM
I won't be going back to PokerRoom.
Let this be a warning to any other sites that are stupid enough to think that raising the rake is a good idea.
Hopefully it will be a freakin ghost town.
Siingo
08-31-2005, 04:22 PM
Im afraid that it wont be a ghosttown right away. It is not that many that acctually read about the rake.
The first months will they probably win more even if they loose some of there high volume players. But the rumour will probably scare the players away later. And other players will notice that they loose money faster there and leave.
But it will take some time....
Just another of many stating that I will no longer play at Pokerrom. Further I will inform some of my acquaintances who don't regularly read 2+2 zoo.....greener pastures.
jrz1972
08-31-2005, 04:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
2/4 LEVEL
Pot size $23 total rake $0.80
Pot size $24 total rake $2
[/ QUOTE ]
OMFG. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif
The new rake structure actually causes the net pot size to FALL as money goes into the pot. This is asinine, and you will never be able to convince anybody that you did "extensive analysis" on this beforehand. A bright sixth-grader could have spotted the flaw here.
M Tal
08-31-2005, 04:36 PM
"The overall drop in player points received is an effect we did not anticipate, intend nor did it surface during our extensive analysis"
Wow you guys got really lucky then.
Managed to increase the rake while
making bonuses harder to clear BY ACCIDENT!
... all during a reload. I played there till today.
Uglyowl
08-31-2005, 04:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2/4 LEVEL
Pot size $23 total rake $0.80
Pot size $24 total rake $2
[/ QUOTE ]
OMFG. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif
The new rake structure actually causes the net pot size to FALL as money goes into the pot. This is asinine, and you will never be able to convince anybody that you did "extensive analysis" on this beforehand. A bright sixth-grader could have spotted the flaw here.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is great, $1 goes into pot, Pokerroom takes $1.20. Amazing!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2/4 LEVEL
Pot size $23 total rake $0.80
Pot size $24 total rake $2
[/ QUOTE ]
OMFG. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif
The new rake structure actually causes the net pot size to FALL as money goes into the pot. This is asinine, and you will never be able to convince anybody that you did "extensive analysis" on this beforehand. A bright sixth-grader could have spotted the flaw here.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is great, $1 goes into pot, Pokerroom takes $1.20. Amazing!
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey it's "more fair" according to their "extensive analysis"!
Uglyowl
08-31-2005, 04:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2/4 LEVEL
Pot size $23 total rake $0.80
Pot size $24 total rake $2
[/ QUOTE ]
OMFG. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif
The new rake structure actually causes the net pot size to FALL as money goes into the pot. This is asinine, and you will never be able to convince anybody that you did "extensive analysis" on this beforehand. A bright sixth-grader could have spotted the flaw here.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is great, $1 goes into pot, Pokerroom takes $1.20. Amazing!
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey it's "more fair" according to their "extensive analysis"!
[/ QUOTE ]
Whoever is doing their extensive analysis should be fired. This is the dumbest rake structure I have ever seen (not withstanding that it is high).
theben
08-31-2005, 04:59 PM
although you may discount or have no large net changes on rake at high stakes games, the sheer volume of low stakes games played generates the majority of dollars from rake. you may pass this under the guise of a 'rake redistibution' when in reality you just tax smaller games more to increase net revenues. your hopes is that since most low limit players are stupid so they won't really become infuriated with this greedy change because they will fail to understand its significance.
if i am wrong, please flame away
evil_twin
08-31-2005, 05:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I am withdrawing as I speak.
Players must use their buying power to make the poker rooms understand that fcuking us over is not to their benefit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite right. Roll withdrawn.
thesharpie
08-31-2005, 05:08 PM
I was going to play here sometime this month. I'll tell my friends not to go to you, I'll even turn the MAC and GNU/Linux users onto Pacific and VMWare. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Bradyams
08-31-2005, 05:09 PM
I'm in the middle of the sign up bonus. This is [censored] horseshit.
PITTM
08-31-2005, 05:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm in the middle of the sign up bonus. This is [censored] horseshit.
[/ QUOTE ]
me too, this sucks /images/graemlins/frown.gif. i have 800 points to clear, that will have to be done some other time.
rj
Uglyowl
08-31-2005, 05:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm in the middle of the sign up bonus. This is [censored] horseshit.
[/ QUOTE ]
me too, this sucks /images/graemlins/frown.gif. i have 800 points to clear, that will have to be done some other time.
rj
[/ QUOTE ]
Mr. Pokerroom said this was an unseen effect that bonus points drop. Maybe they will change it unless it is just lip service.
I am in the same boat, 20% done towards a $200 bonus.
Spook
08-31-2005, 05:29 PM
Money withdrawn mid bonus clearing.
PITTM
08-31-2005, 05:41 PM
yep, me too, more money for eurobet...or maybe my bank account?
rj
lumpy19
08-31-2005, 05:43 PM
Money withdrawn.
Los Feliz Slim
08-31-2005, 07:43 PM
PR was the first place I ever played because of my Mac, and it pains me to say goodbye.
But, goodbye, PR. Let us know when you get your heads out of your asses.
Twisty
08-31-2005, 08:16 PM
Pokerroom at one time was being run out of some guys basement(might still be).
What happened?Did your parents raise the rent on you?
Alyssa
08-31-2005, 08:27 PM
POKERROOM.COM SUCKS!!!! /images/graemlins/mad.gif
PuertoKid
08-31-2005, 08:44 PM
Wow, I'm glad I logged on to 2+2 forums today and read this thread. Haven't been around for awhile and I was about to open a PokerRoom account. Won't be opening that account after all...jeez marie...
augie00
08-31-2005, 08:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
designed to equalize the percentage of rake paid by players of various levels.
[/ QUOTE ]
lol @ that
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am withdrawing as I speak.
Players must use their buying power to make the poker rooms understand that fcuking us over is not to their benefit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite right. Roll withdrawn.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto screw that...I need to see a post about a site lowering rakes at 2/4
Jim Kuhn
08-31-2005, 08:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The new rake structure actually causes the net pot size to FALL as money goes into the pot. This is asinine, and you will never be able to convince anybody that you did "extensive analysis" on this beforehand. A NOT SO bright sixth-grader could have spotted the flaw here.
[/ QUOTE ]
FYP
Thank you,
Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif
RollaJ
08-31-2005, 09:22 PM
It really isnt bad for everyone, check the game you play before deciding based on other peoples opinions
5-10 No Limit Full Ring Game
Pot..... PRoom rake.....Party Rake
$20.........$.50.........$1.00
$35.........$.50.........$1.75
$40.........$2.00........$2.00
$50.........$2.00........$2.50
$60.........$2.00........$3.00
$100........$2.00........$3.00
$120+......$3.00........$3.00
MarkSummers
09-01-2005, 01:44 AM
It all evens out. Rake increase, no 2+2 players there.
college_boy
09-01-2005, 02:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It all evens out. Rake increase, no 2+2 players there.
[/ QUOTE ]
No
I actually picked this up a few days ago when one pot I was in was raked $0.80.
I took the $1000-bonus at powerplayer some two weeks ago. I won't be finishing it, still have 8500 points to go. But I guess I'll not even breakeven with this structure since I play $2/4.
I urge everyone that really has withdrawn their money to email the managers and tell them the reason for the withdrawl.
This aggression will not stand! /images/graemlins/wink.gif
ineedmoneybad
09-01-2005, 04:14 AM
Just cashed out after clearing only half points for the bonus. I won't play there anymore. horrible software too. Theres a new rake free site out there. I don't know if I'm allowed to name it here. Not many players yet, and the software could use some improvement. Poor software and no rake is better than rake and good software. I reccommend others look into this. Also if no rake sites like this get going hopefully it will discourage the big sites from increasing rake, and hopefully encourage lowering the rake.
wbrumfiel
09-01-2005, 06:12 PM
I really wasnt planning on being back anyways but if I needed another reason not to come back you just gave it to me. I play mainly $25-$50 NL and $2/$4 and I see this as a PUNCH in the face, not even a slap. In fact, Im seriously considering hanging around the $2/$4 tables tonight and educating the people who havent seen this outrage yet.
barry111
09-06-2005, 02:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I'm glad I logged on to 2+2 forums today and read this thread. Haven't been around for awhile and I was about to open a PokerRoom account. Won't be opening that account after all...jeez marie...
[/ QUOTE ]
I posted a few rake structures here: link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=inet&Number=3329035&Forum= &Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=3279233&Search= true&where=bodysub&Name=25407&daterange=1&newerval =1&newertype=w&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post 3329035)
UB's 2/4 rake is quite high IMHO... Still not as bad as some of the PR math though.
pecto
09-06-2005, 07:02 PM
I'm not playing in pokerroom anymore with that rake structure
1p0kerb0y
09-06-2005, 08:10 PM
Goodbye pokerroom. Way too many other options out there. I encourage everyone to spread the word of pokerroom's well thought out "changes". This will be all over the internet as well as in chat boxes at the tables. I really feel insulted over this whole thing.
SeanSkill
09-06-2005, 08:32 PM
Dear Pokerroom,
Please explain to all of us here on these forums exactly why the changes were made, and what benefit these changes have to the players of your site. It seems clear to most of the posters here that these changes were made for your benefit not ours, but if you sincerly believe these changes are going to even out the rake payed by players of various levels and different games ie limit vs no limit then show us what your extensive research proved. I have enjoyed playing on your site in the past, however I will not play there again unless you can justify these changes. I will avoid berating you like a lot of other poster's for now, but put your money where your mouth is and let's here what the real reasons for these changes are.
dbirider16
09-06-2005, 08:35 PM
I deposited $1000 last week but i cashed it out without playing after I heard about this. Someone should make an online petition and we can get it posted at every poker forum. We need to show these sites that ripping us off will cause them to lose customers.
Raising rake = /images/graemlins/mad.gif
Lowering rake/giving us rake back = /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif
To be honest,
I don't really care how much the rake is. I don't even pay attention on how much rake I pay.
But just to support your guys, I just took out the money I had left on poker room. Which was $2000 woohoo! I forgot I still had money there hahaha. kewl nice pot for me
Please explain to all of us here on these forums exactly why the changes were made
Does this need more explanation? They just want to make more profit. Imagine you make $300,000 per day in rake and you raise your rake and you start making $400,000 a day?
Sure you'll lose some big players. But the fish is still there and the big players will come back, because what is the rake compared the profit you can make?
Pokerroom is growing very fast. They will keep bringing in the fish. I'd rather eat meat, but I wont say no to fish.
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