Real life moral dilemna

[PLOlover]

This is a true story, I forgot where I heard it but even if I'm making it up it's gotta be true. You'll see what I mean.

Guy dates crazy chick and long story short she gets a restraining order against him whereby if he talks to her or is around her he is defacto guilty of a crime.

Remember, she is mentally ill.

She calls him up one night and tells him she is committing suicide and he has to come over right away and save her.

Remember, he has already committed a crime just by talking to her, just by picking up the phone. You probably don't think that is true, but in some jurisdictions it is.

So whether he tries to save her by going to her house, or by calling the police, he will either be admitting to a crime by calling the police or breaking the restraining order further by going to her house.

Also realize that since she is mentally ill there is a very good chance she may in fact kill herself.

Also note that since she is mentally ill there is a very good chance she is setting the guy up for a trip to jail.

Also note that the police and prosecutors don't care about anything other than the literal interpretation of the court order and will prosecute the guy to the full extent of the law no matter what the circumstances.

Also note for the purposes of this discussion that you cannot infer guilt of any sort on the part of the guy since restraining orders are handed out with absolutely no burden of proof of any kind in many jurisdictions.

Also note that any indirect contact, for example calling one of her friends or family, is also a violation of the court order.

Also note that at this point the only sure way the guy has of staying out of jail is for her to die, since she may wake up tomorrow and decide to call the police and report a contact, for which he has no defense, whether her report is true or not.

[xniNja]

The answer to this is easier than you make it sound. Of course, the option is the man's choice, if he doesn't value her life he can let her die. However, the man can easily call the police and tell them she called him threatening to kill herself with no real fear of repercussion. I voted yes, I would just call the police and tell them the truth. (and this is from the perspective of a law student who doesn't really have much love, respect, or trust for the police.)

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
However, the man can easily call the police and tell them she called him threatening to kill herself with no real fear of repercussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he does this, for the purposes of this discussion, he is guaranteed to be arrested and charged with violating the restraining order.

Like I said, this would not happen everywhere, but would happen in some parts of the US.

Also, to add some flavor, you can assume this would be his 3rd such violation, and as such, a felony.

[chezlaw]

Its hard to see a moral dilemma here. Most would agree that the right thing to do is to try to help her and the only sensible way to do this is to call the authorities.

[ QUOTE ]
Also note that the police and prosecutors don't care about anything other than the literal interpretation of the court order and will prosecute the guy to the full extent of the law no matter what the circumstances.

[/ QUOTE ]

More fool them. I would say that standing up to this kind of stupidity is a moral act in itself but I know I'm wierd.

Even so the fact you fear doing the right thing just makes it a question of how couragous you are, and doesn't stop it from being the right thing to do.

chez

[xniNja]

Alright, although I think this is somewhat of an unrealistic scenario, in anywhere in the country, like saying some girl is about to jump off a building, and if you save her, she'll claim you raped her - and you'll be convicted.

For the sake of the discussion, if you will be significantly wronged, let her die.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
More fool them. I would say that standing up to this kind of stupidity is a moral act in itself but I know I'm wierd.

Even so the fact you fear doing the right thing just makes it a question of how couragous you are, and doesn't stop it from being the right thing to do.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay then I'm weird too, just because the world is run by cu%&s doesn't mean I have to be one as well.

Mack

[runner4life7]

Where in the US would thsi happen, hypothetical bull [censored] is fine but dont say its true because its not. This doesnt make sense.

[kidcolin]

Yeah, no matter how dumb the law can be some time, no cop or judge is going to lock you up for calling them and reporting what's going on.

[Non_Comformist]

wait why did everyone choose yes? She got a restraining order out on me and know I'm suppossed to help her?

[censored] that bitch

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Where in the US would thsi happen, hypothetical bull [censored] is fine but dont say its true because its not. This doesnt make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the Seattle newspaper online regularly. You're bound to come across and editorial or something about zero tolerance for domestic violence and how if the victim refuses to cooperate with police after the initial report the victim will be prosecuted.

Look it up.

Hopefully wisconsin is a bit saner.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, no matter how dumb the law can be some time, no cop or judge is going to lock you up for calling them and reporting what's going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may be right that if all the facts were known you may be able to escape legal punishment, but what's to stop the girl from lying? If she doesn't tell 100% truth and back up your story then there is 0% chance you will escape unscathed.

Also for the purposes of this poll let's pretend there's not an anonymous way of alerting some authority or friend/family of the predicament.

[New001]

I haven't read this whole thread - but, if this girl is crazy enough to have you charged and arrested for helping her out, what's to stop her from doing it even if you don't help? That is, if her end goal is not to kill herself, but instead to get you in trouble, you've supposedly already done enough by answering her call.

I voted yes. Either help her yourself if you want the extra risk, or call the police to help her.

[m1illion]

Some dilemma.
Hang up and go make a sandwich.

[jakethebake]

I don't view this as a moral dilemma at all. It would be nice of him to try save her, but I don't see that he has any moral obligation to do so.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, the man can easily call the police and tell them she called him threatening to kill herself with no real fear of repercussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he does this, for the purposes of this discussion, he is guaranteed to be arrested and charged with violating the restraining order.

Like I said, this would not happen everywhere, but would happen in some parts of the US.

Also, to add some flavor, you can assume this would be his 3rd such violation, and as such, a felony.

[/ QUOTE ]A jury of his peers would never convict him.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, no matter how dumb the law can be some time, no cop or judge is going to lock you up for calling them and reporting what's going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may be right that if all the facts were known you may be able to escape legal punishment, but what's to stop the girl from lying? If she doesn't tell 100% truth and back up your story then there is 0% chance you will escape unscathed.

Also for the purposes of this poll let's pretend there's not an anonymous way of alerting some authority or friend/family of the predicament.

[/ QUOTE ]Phone records will reveal who made the initial call.

[hurlyburly]

Really? What if they heard this:

"The defendant approached her earlier in the day, she called to warn him away, then he called the police and falsely submitted that she was threatening to commit suicide"

[hurlyburly]

I said yes because there might be some manic crazy sex for going over. Crazy girl sex is worth the risk, and it's not even close. Those who know what I mean know what I mean.

If she in fact kill herself you could be charged for not helping a person in danger. I too agree that you're pushing the limit of truth saying in some juridiction you would be charged.

Also there are different way to break a restraining order, e.g. talking isn't as bad as visiting, her calling you isn't as bad as you calling her etc. He would probably be off with a warning and not serious charge.

[ QUOTE ]
Really? What if they heard this:

"The defendant approached her earlier in the day, she called to warn him away, then he called the police and falsely submitted that she was threatening to commit suicide"

[/ QUOTE ]"She called to warn him away" does not pass the credibility test. If she was concerned, she would have called the police, not the person she was afraid of.

[JonPKibble]

[ QUOTE ]
Remember, he has already committed a crime just by talking to her, just by picking up the phone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Link please?

I think the "magic medicine" dilemmas were more "real life" than your example.

[DarrenX]

[ QUOTE ]
I said yes because there might be some manic crazy sex for going over. Crazy girl sex is worth the risk, and it's not even close. Those who know what I mean know what I mean.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it's right up there with makeup sex and conjugal visit sex. NICE... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[PLOlover]

http://www.menweb.org/youngres.htm

[ QUOTE ]
Legally, it doesn't matter if the contact is accidental, or if it happened with the purported victim's consent or at her initiative.

[/ QUOTE ]

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Also there are different way to break a restraining order, e.g. talking isn't as bad as visiting, her calling you isn't as bad as you calling her etc. He would probably be off with a warning and not serious charge.


[/ QUOTE ]

Mandatory arrest in some jurisdictions, and also mandatory prosecution.

This guy called wife from hospital during heart attack while he was doped up on morphine (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=sd&vol=1998_002&invol=1)

[benkahuna]

This is retarded and totally implausible.

Even if I believe you, I choose option C, have a friend call the cops and send them to her place. Duh. Ever heard of an anonymous tip?

And whenever people are involved, the law is not as pedantic as you've described.

If this situation were really this hardcore, the guy wouldn't have answered the phone and if he did, he deserved whatever bad things occurred. He would have been stupid to answer and he would reap the consequences for doing so. Being stupid has consequences though it seems people choose not to accept it. Stupid to me is doing something with serious consequences when you know better than to do so.


And the other poster was right, just going over there is a good idea for "I know what you mean."

[PLOlover]

This one is funny (http://www.dvmen.org/dv-139.htm#pgfId-1083712)

Caller ID.