Flopping a monster, but unsure how to progress......

[spydog]

Flop raiser is somewhat Taggy, while the other 2 players are pretty terrible (like 60/5/.8)

What is my plan from here? I felt this was one of those spots where I need to take a few seconds to make a plan for the rest of the hand and not be impulsive.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero......

[MrBig30]

Call and bet turn. You can't protect your hand from flushdraws anyway, and you want to keep weaker draws hanging on. Of course if the other players are so loose they will call 2 cold on the flop with weak draws - let them have it with a 3-bet.

[aK13]

T
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[cartman]

Pedal to the floor for me unless a club hits in which case I might back off and call if raised. I might also back off if the action got really heavy when a non-club 5 or 6 hit. I think it is very unlikely you will lose both of the callers on the flop even if it does cost them two more bets. You will have to a lead a non-club turn anyway because it would be a tragedy if the turn got checked through.

Cartman

[mr pink]

what's wrong with calling the flop raise and donk betting the turn to trap the callers in between and hope for another CO raise? you'd rather just 3-bet the flop when it's likely to get it HU with the CO? what other benefits does 3-betting the flop have over calling and leading the turn?

[nukemar25]

I don't think a flop 3-bet is likely to get it heads up. People with those kind of numbers hate to lay down once they have called a bet already. They certainly are not going to fold a flush draw. I think you have to 3-bet here.

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think a flop 3-bet is likely to get it heads up. People with those kind of numbers hate to lay down once they have called a bet already. They certainly are not going to fold a flush draw. I think you have to 3-bet here.

[/ QUOTE ]

i didn't see their numbers. i guess if they're likely to call 2 cold on that board then yeah 3-bet it up. would the stop and go have merit on more 27/10 type players?

[marching_on_together]

i like the stop and go, i think there is a good chance that you will get raised again on the turn if opp doen't have the flush draw. If the players caught inbetween will call two 3-bet but even 60 types will often fold when faced with calling two cold here. I'd keep them in likely drawing dead apart from maybe a rr flush, you might even get raised by them if a broadway card hits.

[spydog]

[ QUOTE ]
i like the stop and go, i think there is a good chance that you will get raised again on the turn if opp doen't have the flush draw. If the players caught inbetween will call two 3-bet but even 60 types will often fold when faced with calling two cold here. I'd keep them in likely drawing dead apart from maybe a rr flush, you might even get raised by them if a broadway card hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is great advice and exactly how I felt after I played this hand and thought about it for a while.

Of course, I 3-bet this flop and both the callers folded.

3-betting this flop is pretty bad IMO because:

1) I can't protect my hand against a flush draw and the pot is small enough that I can't be concerned about runner-runner.

2) If I call the flop raise then the 2 original callers will also call with hands like JT, A8, etc... If they hit their card on the turn they are paying off the entire way and might even raise me.

3) I don't want to fold Ax in this spot. While some donks will call 2-cold with Ax, some will not. By calling the flop raise and leading the turn I give them the opportunity to raise me if an Ace or 5 hits on the turn or river. I don't mind not spending 1 SB on the flop if it will pay me 3-4BBs on the later streets.

4) If the TAG has a set or an overpair, then I'm likely to get raised on the turn, whereas a flop 3-bet might slow him down. Plus the stop and go makes it harder for him to throw away a decent hand that is drawing dead.

[witeknite]

If the opposition is tougher, I like the stop and go here.

WiteKnite

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
3) I don't want to fold Ax in this spot. While some donks will call 2-cold with Ax, some will not. By calling the flop raise and leading the turn I give them the opportunity to raise me if an Ace or 5 hits on the turn or river. I don't mind not spending 1 SB on the flop if it will pay me 3-4BBs on the later streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

excellent point. i think this is important to note.