what is standard line?

[The Truth]

Hero is delt kqo in mp1.

folds to hero, hero raises. 24/12/1.8 guy directly to hero's left 3 bets. folds to hero.
hero calls.

Flop comes: K 5 5

what is plan for hand?

[ QUOTE ]
Hero is delt kqo in mp1.

folds to hero, hero raises. 24/12/1.8 guy directly to hero's left 3 bets. folds to hero.
hero calls.

Flop comes: K 5 5

what is plan for hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
You should check and call all the way. If the villain has a worse hand than you like AQ or QQ,JJ,TT. Why would you want to play back at him and make him fold? You make a lot more money letting the villain bet these 2 or 3 outer type hands all the way. And if the villain has a better hand than you like AK,KK or AA, you minimize your loss by checking and calling. This is a classic example where checking and calling gets the most money in the long run.

[danwan]

Check-raise flop, bet turn and bet river. If u get reraised turn you are probably beaten and should fold.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Check-raise flop, bet turn and bet river. If u get reraised turn you are probably beaten and should fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

nowhere near optimal.

Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero is delt kqo in mp1.

folds to hero, hero raises. 24/12/1.8 guy directly to hero's left 3 bets. folds to hero.
hero calls.

Flop comes: K 5 5

what is plan for hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

check call check call and decide based on the speed of his bets, history etc.. whether to bet or check the rvier.

a few things to consider in no particular order and in no particular order of importance:

1) how often do you play with him/her? if always then betting may be best b/c youd ont want somebody youp lay allthe time with thinking they can put in 1.5bbs and get a showdown all the time.

2) how aggressive he is on the river. calling a bet here could be a good thing or a bad thing.

3) how likely he is to bluff if you check or bet a worse hand for value but would fold if you bet.

4) how likely it is that he'll call with a worse hand.

my betting and checking frequency here varies as above factors do.

i think it was JAsucker that said in some instances there is an ideal # of bets that should go in the pot. i think 2.5bbs here is perfect in many cases.

Barron

[stigmata]

[ QUOTE ]
Check-raise flop, bet turn and bet river. If u get reraised turn you are probably beaten and should fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with this is it is a way-ahead/way-behind situation. Villain either has us crushed with AA/AK/KK, or is drawing to 2-4 outs with Ax, QQ etc. With a worse hand, villain will probably fold when we check-raise the flop, and we have left money on the table.

Furthermore, the aggressive villain will presumably bet the hand for us, but could also re-raise with hands like KQs (or worse, e.g. after picking up a flush draw on the turn) and knock us out. Some opponents will re-raise with QQ/JJ.

Therefore calling down can be a good option. Check-call, check-call, bet-[fold/call] is another option. This way we win the most when ahead, but lose the least when behind.

[The Truth]

I went check/call
check/call

river went check/check.

He had jj.
I wasn't sure about leading the river there.
I am still undecided against this opponent, but I have my thoughts clearer now.

thanks for the responses.

[legend42]

It's much easier to bet the river if you can semi-represent a big hand that AK or AA would have to fear. For instance if the river completes (even a backdoor) flush draw, or if the flop was K T T instead of K 5 5.

I bet the river about 75% here though even on dry boards. You'll get called by almost anything he has, whereas he will check behind with a lot of hands. Sometimes they even try yo raise your donkbet with hands you beat.

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
It's much easier to bet the river if you can semi-represent a big hand that AK or AA would have to fear. For instance if the river completes (even a backdoor) flush draw, or if the flop was K T T instead of K 5 5.

I bet the river about 75% here though even on dry boards. You'll get called by almost anything he has, whereas he will check behind with a lot of hands. Sometimes they even try yo raise your donkbet with hands you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

usually when you take this check/call check/call lead line;
you want to be able to fold to a raise on the river.

I think lestat had a post about this recently.

The potential river raise for worse hands is what makes me lean toward a check, espeically when I am not going to pay off a raise.

[DpR]

I do not necessarily think that c/c, c/c, b/c or c/c again is a bad way to play it, but the notion that pairs below K are folding here on this flop are way off IMO. If we are talking the party 30 here you are getting called down by any pair here most of the time.

I do not think check raising this flop is necessarily so bad - especially if you are an otherwise aggressive player and would do the same w/a mid PP here (which I would). I would definitely be c/r this flop some of the time. If you get three bet on the flop you can probably fold to a turn bet (if he makes it) against reasonable opponents, but default would be to call down.

[BradL]

You should checkraise this flop against opponents that will call down all the way with middle pairs and are likely to have such holdings. You check/call check/call lead or check/call against opponents that will not give you action with smaller pairs and will punish you with AK, AA here.

If you are never checkraising top pair strong kicker in spots like this you are giving up future bluff equity and freecards against observant opponents that will make laydowns. If you are always checkraising top pair you are playing too predictably on a cheap street and letting opponents off way too easy with middle pairs and other weaker holdings.

-Brad

[The Truth]

if you check raise the flop, you are opening yourself up to a raise or bluff raise on the big street.

In the 30 game, they WILL raise ak, aa, kk on the turn, if not 3 bet the flop.

Also, they WILL bluff raise you on the turn with JJ and other hands you beat.

I think a more passive line in this spot is generally more prudent.

Also, suited connectors and hands like that arent out of question for villian, and he might fire the whole way with such a hand. He will release to any action.

[TXTiger]

I agree that the c/r flop bet bet line is not optimal for this hand in a vacuum. But will you ever c/r flop bet turn with J high? What about 88 hoping he will fold his TT? Because I will do these things I will also use the c/r bet bet line with KQ. You should consider how you are perceived by your opponent when making the decision.

I also like donkbetting the river here because you won't get raised that often even by AK for fear you may have hit a set or the like. But JJ will likely call your river bet.

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that the c/r flop bet bet line is not optimal for this hand in a vacuum. But will you ever c/r flop bet turn with J high? What about 88 hoping he will fold his TT? Because I will do these things I will also use the c/r bet bet line with KQ. You should consider how you are perceived by your opponent when making the decision.

I also like donkbetting the river here because you won't get raised that often even by AK for fear you may have hit a set or the like. But JJ will likely call your river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with river donkbet fairly often.

I dont get to fancy in this situation because my opponent usually isn't good enough for fancy action to have merit.

So, unless I recognize a name or the stats are strongly baised, its ABC.

I agree that opponent dynamics can be quite important in this situation.

[Mikey]

check and call the whole way down.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's much easier to bet the river if you can semi-represent a big hand that AK or AA would have to fear. For instance if the river completes (even a backdoor) flush draw, or if the flop was K T T instead of K 5 5.

I bet the river about 75% here though even on dry boards. You'll get called by almost anything he has, whereas he will check behind with a lot of hands. Sometimes they even try yo raise your donkbet with hands you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

usually when you take this check/call check/call lead line;
you want to be able to fold to a raise on the river.

I think lestat had a post about this recently.

The potential river raise for worse hands is what makes me lean toward a check, espeically when I am not going to pay off a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your thinking here is 100% correct. If you think theres a chance your opponent will bluff raise or raise with hands you can beat than your better off checking the river. If you can safely fold to a raise on the river than betting the river makes more money than checking. Online where your more likely not to know your opponent that well you are better off checking the river in my opinion.

[DpR]

[ QUOTE ]
if you check raise the flop, you are opening yourself up to a raise or bluff raise on the big street.

In the 30 game, they WILL raise ak, aa, kk on the turn, if not 3 bet the flop.

Also, they WILL bluff raise you on the turn with JJ and other hands you beat.

I think a more passive line in this spot is generally more prudent.

Also, suited connectors and hands like that arent out of question for villian, and he might fire the whole way with such a hand. He will release to any action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course there is more risk to check raising. No risk no reward. And of course AA, AK and KK will rasie the turn. Against predictable opponents you can fold to the raise. Against more savvy opponents that might do this with JJ you can call the turn raise and fold to a river bet. Against the monkeys you call all the way down.

My points was against a lot of opponents you are ahead here a large % of the time and they will pay you off with worse hands (considerabley moreso than if the K was an A). There are a lot of options here, check raising the turn is possible too (folding to a three bet).

I think your hand is strong enough for 3.5BBs to go into this pot.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's much easier to bet the river if you can semi-represent a big hand that AK or AA would have to fear. For instance if the river completes (even a backdoor) flush draw, or if the flop was K T T instead of K 5 5.

I bet the river about 75% here though even on dry boards. You'll get called by almost anything he has, whereas he will check behind with a lot of hands. Sometimes they even try yo raise your donkbet with hands you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

usually when you take this check/call check/call lead line;
you want to be able to fold to a raise on the river.

I think lestat had a post about this recently.

The potential river raise for worse hands is what makes me lean toward a check, espeically when I am not going to pay off a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your thinking here is 100% correct. If you think theres a chance your opponent will bluff raise or raise with hands you can beat than your better off checking the river. If you can safely fold to a raise on the river than betting the river makes more money than checking. Online where your more likely not to know your opponent that well you are better off checking the river in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think it's ok to bet and call a raise online. people will call with QQ and lower pp almost ALL the time here. a few will raise you with a hand you beat (which you welcome). a few will call with a hand that beats you (which you welcome). on rare occassions, you will get raised and call and lose to AK, AA, less KK, even less of some other hands.

but ALMOST ALWAYS you will get called by a hand you will beat.

- Kenny

[imashyboi]

You actually have several options here. I don't exactly know what's a tight vpip but he seems like a tight aggressive standard. I'm calling the Flop, maybe c'raise the Turn or the River, or bet out on the river and call 1 back. The only hand that beats you here would be AA, KK or AK. I think there are other hands a tight aggressive person would reraise in this spot, AQ, QQ-99 are all possible. You got tons of options.