JJ

[oreogod]

Villian here is loose, doesnt do much raising. Again a early hand at my table. I guess the question is the flop. Easy raise? Did I puss out or do good?

Also, Hypothetical question: What do u do here w/ without the J of /images/graemlins/heart.gif?


Holdem (4 handed)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (5.20 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets...

[imported_CaseClosed326]

I fold the flop w/o the J /images/graemlins/heart.gif

With the J /images/graemlins/heart.gif I do what you did.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold the flop w/o the J /images/graemlins/heart.gif

With the J /images/graemlins/heart.gif I do what you did.

[/ QUOTE ]

[jrbick]

Disclaimer: I'm new to (6)

Even bet the Turn? (Why?)

I'm also wondering what we do on the River UI.

[imported_CaseClosed326]

[ QUOTE ]
Disclaimer: I'm new to (6)

Even bet the Turn? (Why?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question. He is not folding anything we beat, and will just punish is with a made flush. Checking behind might be better, allowing hero the chanced to be bluffed at on the river if he does not hit the flush.


Now I am confused, hopefully someone can come and straighten this out.

[jba]

i totally think villain can fold a queen here

[einbert]

If villian is very passive and will go into calldown mode on the flop with an A, I do like raising. He can't have a really strong hand here unless we flopped a flush and we have the J of trump, the card people love to defend their BB with of course. You'll get a half price card the majority of the time. The question that we have to ask though, is how often does he have a hand strong enough to three-bet here or lead the turn with. Hard to say but there are a lot more combos of naked queens or aces than there are heart hearts so it looks like raising is probably going to be good.

The turn bet is questionable. He might call you drawing dead with just a ten high flush draw, but he also might very well fear a raise and be checking a hand like QT or even A5. I would just check and if he bets out on a nonheart river I would fold, or take a free showdown if he offers it.

[imported_CaseClosed326]

Qx /images/graemlins/heart.gif no. Q without a heart maybe.

To the OP what limit is this at? I have only played up to 3/6 so without reads I don't know what the norm would be.

[oreogod]

sorry, they are both 3/6

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
i totally think villain can fold a queen here

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see why villian would be inclined to fold a queen at any point in this hand before the river. If I were villian and I held a queen I certainly wouldn't see any compelling reason to fold, and loose passives tend to find reason to call down a lot more frequently than I do.

[jrbick]

[ QUOTE ]
i totally think villain can fold a queen here

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree -- but is villain leading the flop w/ one after we raised PF? (maybe he is, I really don't know)

I think K/images/graemlins/heart.gif and MAYBE T/images/graemlins/heart.gif would bet flop check turn. Given that he led the flop, the passive turn makes me think weak ace more than anything and he isn't folding it. W/ that line I personally hesitate betting the T UI.

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
he also might very well fear a raise and be checking a hand like QT or even A5. I would just check and if he bets out on a nonheart river I would fold, or take a free showdown if he offers it.

[/ QUOTE ]

wouldn't the K /images/graemlins/heart.gif check/call the turn fearing a raise as well? an Ace is more likely to keep the pressure on. i think hero is good here a lot of the time when villain checks the turn.

[oreogod]

Flop I was considering raising for the free card, as u can see it probably would have worked. But the question is how often am I getting threebet or stop and goed on the turn, I could see some random Ax w/ heart or Qx maybe having the sack to 3-bet or stop and go w/ their flush draw and mid-top pair.

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm also wondering what we do on the River UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking.

[dave44]

I think your turn bet sucks. Check the turn and call the river, raising a heart.

[obsidian]

What's wrong with the turn bet? If this player is loose he is calling a turn bet with any heart. Also, since he is passive being c/r'd is unlikely and you can always take a free showdown. I think you are ahead often enough on the turn to make a bet good.

[augie00]

I raise this flop and lead the turn almost every time. It's often tough to know where you are here (as with most situations where the villian leads with a donkey bet) but as long as you keep the lead you give him a chance to fold a hand that is winning

edit: he's not raising a hand that you're beating i think

[dave44]

Hmmm I guess his turn check means we should really discount A's and Q's and he's much more likely to have a heart draw. Betting's not as bad as I first thought.

[jrbick]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm I guess his turn check means we should really discount A's and Q's and he's much more likely to have a heart draw. Betting's not as bad as I first thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't discount them entirely. A's more than Q's anyway and the only way I'm betting here is if I'm 90% sure he's mucking it. OP doesn't have this kind of read on villain.

I just don't see how we can give ourselves enough equity to make betting profitable on the Turn. But I'm open; after all, I'm posting in order to learn /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[dave44]

[ QUOTE ]
the only way I'm betting here is if I'm 90% sure he's mucking it.

[/ QUOTE ]
He's either drawing dead with a lower heart than ours, ahead of us with a Q or A, or slightly behind with the king of hearts. Regardless, he's not folding any of these hands and that's ok because we want to get that bet from the hands we're ahead of. If his range is wider and includes a lot of bluffs on the flop that are drawing very close to dead and will fold the turn, a check would have more merit because he'll often bluff again on the river after we show weakness.