The biggest lesson I've learned at PLO

[DRKEVDC]

I have been playing PLO for a little while now and think that the biggest lesson that I have learned is not falling in love with hands. It took me a little while to learn that you must be able to get away from a hand that was the nuts on the flop and now isn't on the turn.

What other lessons have people learned that has helped them?

[Small Stakes]

I'm new to PLO, but the turning point for me was when I realized how not loose w/ AAxx.

Here's a good one:

Say you have a hand like TT98 and the flop is 993. The other 9 is likely out there and has a MUCH better chance of filling up than you do. Not saying you should fold every time, but play this hand with extreme caution.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been playing PLO for a little while now and think that the biggest lesson that I have learned is not falling in love with hands. It took me a little while to learn that you must be able to get away from a hand that was the nuts on the flop and now isn't on the turn.

What other lessons have people learned that has helped them?

[/ QUOTE ]

I learned to flop/turn/river the nuts more often

It's a tough transition to make from hold'em. I think for me it was the value of a re-draw even a small. Top set with even a small flush draw, a flush with a str8 flush draw. Those extra 1 or 2 outs can make a hand that should be folded playable or a calling hand one worth a raise.

[wickss]

I have learn that at a table full of weak tight players you should play the board and not just your hole cards. Represent and bluff intellegintly.

[Runner Runner]

Position, Position, Position

[Rosie5]

ok here's one simple rule that can make anyone a winning player. If you're ever in a tough spot just remember :

"you aren't getting bluffed"

if you just remember this-you can win at this game (at least at low stakes) really it's as simple as that, you generally aren't getting bluffed

[Ribbo]

Position does not entitle you to fold good hands out of position or play bad hands with position. Actually tabling the best hand is still the most important factor.

[beset7]

The biggest lesson I learned in PLO, in all seriousness, is to be very over-bankrolled for the game you are playing in. After that, the three most important lessons I've learned I have related to three areas (a) table selection (b) position (c) pot control.

[Filip]

[ QUOTE ]
(c) pot control.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am having some trouble grasping this concept i think. Can some elobarate what pot control is?

[Maulik]

keep the pot small when you're out of position. you don't want to have to call off a huge % of your stack on a draw, things of that nature.

pot control is very important in tournament strategy.

I forgot to mention this, this is a big adjustment. Controling the size of the pot is most likely the #1 thing to master in PLO.

[jhall23]

[ QUOTE ]
keep the pot small when you're out of position. you don't want to have to call off a huge % of your stack on a draw, things of that nature.

pot control is very important in tournament strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a lot easier to keep the pot small when you are in position vs out of position, but you must exercise pot control both in and out of postion. OOP example being check/calling flop then leading turn when OOP instead of check/raising the flop which bloats the pot. When in postion checking behind on the turn etc etc.

I think of pot control both ways not just "keeping it small". It's often very important to build big pots (in pot limit games especially) when you are really deep and have to work harder to get your stack in the middle when you want it there. This jives a lot with the importance of position in PL games cause when people have big hands in EP if they don't put some money in the pot it will be hard for them to win a big one, thus you have more info when you are in LP.

[Big Dave D]

Pot control, if you are American, means *always* betting the pot because you can't get that pesky allin like in good, decent, clean living, US of A, No limit holdem.

To non-Americans, it means crafting the pot size to the situation, normally the maths of the situation, sometimes the dynamic of the hand. An example of the former would be betting similar amounts with strong draws and made hands. An example of the latter would not be betting so much through the streets that when you have to bluff on the river, he can call for amusement reasons.

gl

Dave

[ QUOTE ]
What other lessons have people learned that has helped them?

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't get too excited when you flop the nut straight or 2nd nut flush. Learned that the hard way in my early Omaha days.

[DRKEVDC]

Of all of the ones that I have read, at the lower limits at least, Rosies is the one that is the most right on. I can't tell you the last time someone was bluffing at low limit PLO. If people bet it they always have it. I'm sure bluffing is a part of the game at the higher limits but definietly not at the lower ones.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm new to PLO, but the turning point for me was when I realized how not loose w/ AAxx.

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is, you fold it?

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
Pot control, if you are American, means *always* betting the pot because you can't get that pesky allin like in good, decent, clean living, US of A, No limit holdem.

To non-Americans, it means crafting the pot size to the situation, normally the maths of the situation, sometimes the dynamic of the hand. An example of the former would be betting similar amounts with strong draws and made hands. An example of the latter would not be betting so much through the streets that when you have to bluff on the river, he can call for amusement reasons.


[/ QUOTE ]

Puke. . .

There's a reason I've adjusted my sleep schedule to be able to play with the brits, french, and swedes.

[Acesover8s]

And I don't wanna hear [censored] about the 8$ value bet you made against me with the 4th nut on the river. . .

[Filip]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pot control, if you are American, means *always* betting the pot because you can't get that pesky allin like in good, decent, clean living, US of A, No limit holdem.

To non-Americans, it means crafting the pot size to the situation, normally the maths of the situation, sometimes the dynamic of the hand. An example of the former would be betting similar amounts with strong draws and made hands. An example of the latter would not be betting so much through the streets that when you have to bluff on the river, he can call for amusement reasons.


[/ QUOTE ]

Puke. . .

There's a reason I've adjusted my sleep schedule to be able to play with the brits, french, and swedes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aha so that is why i am now playing with 2 tables full of nutpeddling weaktight americans.

[Filip]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Puke. . .

There's a reason I've adjusted my sleep schedule to be able to play with the brits, french, and swedes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aha so that is why i am now playing with 2 tables full of nutpeddling weaktight americans.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hepp i was playing PLO/8..... no wonder i thought the game was strange.

[Big Dave D]

Damn...just gonna use that example /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The US pot bet thing is an old jibe, as you know, and is mostly true. Or at least true enough for me to use it to annoy you and Beset.

I dont think using the Brits, Swedes and French back at me is very fair...how about the Dutch hey? You rush to get in their games? Yeah, gone quiet at the back of class now /images/graemlins/smile.gif

gl

dd

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
Pot control, if you are American, means *always* betting the pot because you can't get that pesky allin like in good, decent, clean living, US of A, No limit holdem.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's with the blunt, sledgehammer-like humor? I thought the limey's were supposed to be all dry and rapier-like?

[Big Dave D]

Its an old jibe between Beset, Aces and I.

A bit like you and Winter do, but without the gay pictures.

gl

DD

[nebben]

Don't semi-bluff OOP in Omaha.
Someone with a made hand is waiting to play the hand for your stack.
DO semi-bluff in omaha if youre willing to put your stack in on the flop because of how many outs you have

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
Pot control, if you are American, means *always* betting the pot because you can't get that pesky allin like in good, decent, clean living, US of A, No limit holdem.


[/ QUOTE ]

Its not our fault that don't uncap the buyins so we can play proper poker. Small bets are for crumpet eaters /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[HopeydaFish]

The biggest lesson? Don't chase unless you're getting the right pot odds *and* have a good chance at a scoop.

[GimmeDaWatch]

[ QUOTE ]
Pot control, if you are American, means *always* betting the pot because you can't get that pesky allin like in good, decent, clean living, US of A, No limit holdem.

To non-Americans, it means crafting the pot size to the situation, normally the maths of the situation, sometimes the dynamic of the hand. An example of the former would be betting similar amounts with strong draws and made hands. An example of the latter would not be betting so much through the streets that when you have to bluff on the river, he can call for amusement reasons.

gl

Dave

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh Dave. Those bloody unsophisticated yanks in all their ham-fisted, bludgeoning away at the pot. While Phil Hellmuth does advise his faithful readers to "always bet the pot", it is conceivable, dare I say probable, that not all Americans play PLO in an identical fashion. BTW, more blog entries please /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[benkahuna]

TJ recommends always betting the pot too. He's into building a pot.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Pot control, if you are American, means *always* betting the pot because you can't get that pesky allin like in good, decent, clean living, US of A, No limit holdem.

To non-Americans, it means crafting the pot size to the situation, normally the maths of the situation, sometimes the dynamic of the hand. An example of the former would be betting similar amounts with strong draws and made hands. An example of the latter would not be betting so much through the streets that when you have to bluff on the river, he can call for amusement reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Big Dave has made an important point, although one I don't care to elaborate on for reasons I gave in a recent thread I started. If some of you really don't even make an attempt to get it and would rather toss your cookies instead, that's fine by me if you are playing on my tables.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
Pot control, if you are American, means *always* betting the pot because you can't get that pesky allin like in good, decent, clean living, US of A, No limit holdem.

To non-Americans, it means crafting the pot size to the situation, normally the maths of the situation, sometimes the dynamic of the hand. An example of the former would be betting similar amounts with strong draws and made hands. An example of the latter would not be betting so much through the streets that when you have to bluff on the river, he can call for amusement reasons.



Big Dave has made an important point, although one I don't care to elaborate on for reasons I gave in a recent thread I started. If some of you really don't even make an attempt to get it and would rather toss your cookies instead, that's fine by me if you are playing on my tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

When the most quality post you can make is "Big Dave is right, do you see why?" you're really not adding much value to this forum.

[BluffTHIS!]

What I contributed was the comment of a winning plo player at the hightest limits (myself) supporting the post of another player which yourself and possibly others don't seem to get. I don't really care whether you get it or not, but wanted to encourage lower limit players with less experience to think about what Dave said and why it might be true and in what situations.

[IIMAJIKII]

Could you please give me a link to that thread?

Thx in advance.

[BluffTHIS!]

I can't seem to find it even in my post list. It was entitled "Lack of More Advanced PLO Discussion". I don't know if renaming this forum to remove the pot-limit from the title has messed up the search results or not, but it was within the past month.

[abscr]

I'd say this lesson is more of a lesson of poker in general, taking into account implied odds, reverse-implied odds, et cetera. And actually not much of a lesson, more like one of the first steps from playing at the poker table and winning at the poker table.

And, as I see you have been told already, this forum is for omaha high (and this thread pot-limit omaha [high]) and not any form of hi-lo.

As for my lesson, I'd say pot manipulation and how to play in different positions.

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
Its an old jibe between Beset, Aces and I.

A bit like you and Winter do, but without the gay pictures.
gl
DD

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh, carry on then.

And for the record, I have never posted any pictures.

-g

[gergery]

I came over from NLHE to play Omaha in its various forms.

The biggest lessons I learned are as follows (keep in mind I play low limits in PLO)
1) Position is King, even more important than in NL,
2) AAxx sucks to play – it was my biggest leak for quite a while – until you figure out how to let it go,
3) playing against AAxx is fun. If the money is even moderately deep and your opponents hand is relatively obvious, and he is tenacious, it can be a big money winner
4) LAG play is easier to do in this game than any other. I use shorthanded PLO50 to play very agro and blow off steam after my real games
5) the variance is bigger in this game than any other (my opinion, not backed by stats)
6) it is correct to raise preflop but not really follow up on it to a greater extent than I thought possible
7) Hands need to be much stronger and redraws are critical

--greg

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
What I contributed was the comment of a winning plo player at the hightest limits (myself) supporting the post of another player which yourself and possibly others don't seem to get. I don't really care whether you get it or not, but wanted to encourage lower limit players with less experience to think about what Dave said and why it might be true and in what situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you're a winning PLO player at the hightest(sic) limits?

Please tell me how is the 1,000$-2,000$ PLO rotation at the Bellagio?

Also could you tell me what your name was on the Prima 40-80$ game when that was going daily? I wonder if we have any interesting hands from that game we could share?

The 10-25$ PLO game at the WSOP was pretty smooth, made tougher by the fact that I couldn't seem to find the "bet pot" button anywhere, and my entire game centers around betting the full potsize. You must've been at the 25-50$ game at the next table between Williamson and Devilfish. Wow, it sure would've been nice to brag that I was in the biggest game in the room. . . rather, I chose to sit in the softest game in the room. . .

Ahh, you must've been one of those guys at the Golden Nugget last year playing 3 handed 50-100$ PLO with Doyle and Gus Hansen. Which one were you? None of them seemed to last very long.

Post your screennames so we may marvel in your greatness.

[DarthIgnurnt]

[ QUOTE ]
There's a reason I've adjusted my sleep schedule to be able to play with the brits, french, and swedes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[BluffTHIS!]

OK aces you got me. I should have used the qualifying adjective "online", which generally means 10/25 blinds since I won't play on Prima sites, although I have played 25/50 blinds live in private games. But if you want to disagree with Dave's comments, which is how this started, then why don't you give a more detailed explanation about betting the size or less of the pot, rather than just making throw away comments.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
OK aces you got me. I should have used the qualifying adjective "online", which generally means 10/25 blinds since I won't play on Prima sites, although I have played 25/50 blinds live in private games. But if you want to disagree with Dave's comments, which is how this started, then why don't you give a more detailed explanation about betting the size or less of the pot, rather than just making throw away comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Attention dumbass,

If you reread my original post in this thread you'll see my quibble had nothing to do with whether or not a policy of always betting the pot or not, but rather whether or not the weak PLO players online were Americans or Europeans.

It was an obvious joke, as clearly, the world's worst PLO players are from Canada.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]

OK aces you got me. I should have used the qualifying adjective "online", which generally means 10/25 blinds since I won't play on Prima sites,

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, I don't know of a site that spreads 10-25$ PLO other than UB, and it never ever runs.

[barongreenback]

Lack of more advanced PLO discussion (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3188319&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)
The server seems to have a deep philosophical problem with PLO posts. The only way to find them is to go through the main list.

Talking of which, whenever I find a thread of any interest it always degenerates into a bitch a trois between Ribbo, Acesover8s and Bluffthis and any poker questions are forgotten. These 3 posters are important to the forum.

Acesover8s, I'm sure I remember you saying that Bluffthis gives bad advice. Can you elaborate on where you differ because I've always found he explains himself well. Is it a difference of playing style? If I'm mistaken then I apologise.

The forum needs this sorting out. If the problems are just personal then they need to be left to one side.

James

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Talking of which, whenever I find a thread of any interest it always degenerates into a bitch a trois between Ribbo, Acesover8s and Bluffthis and any poker questions are forgotten. These 3 posters are important to the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't forget Big Dave, although he usually is only a catalyst for the disagreements of others. All of you should read his blog as well.

[Big Dave D]

Hey, I never argue with anyone!

Tx for the plug, btw /images/graemlins/smile.gif

gl

dd

[Spellmen]

While those 3 posters may argue and fight, the fact remains that their advice is usually right on. They don't have to be here at all to help, so it's best to ignore the way it's presented and just take it for what it is, good advice.

[Big Dave D]

Dave

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OK aces you got me. I should have used the qualifying adjective "online", which generally means 10/25 blinds since I won't play on Prima sites, although I have played 25/50 blinds live in private games. But if you want to disagree with Dave's comments, which is how this started, then why don't you give a more detailed explanation about betting the size or less of the pot, rather than just making throw away comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Attention dumbass,

If you reread my original post in this thread you'll see my quibble had nothing to do with whether or not a policy of always betting the pot or not, but rather whether or not the weak PLO players online were Americans or Europeans.

It was an obvious joke, as clearly, the world's worst PLO players are from Canada.

[/ QUOTE ]


My other learning from PLO is that there is more latent [censored]-erotic posting in this forum than any other. Some posters should get a hotel room together and just get it over with.

[DRKEVDC]

Another thing that I have learned. Having the non nut boat has cost me some serious pots. : /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Spellmen]

I think underfulls and aces are the things new players really need to tread softly with