2 sites I found that are similar to PSO/Boogster. Are they reputable?

[Stosh]

Hey all. I stumbled across these sites that Poker Tracker listed as links. They seem to offer similar services as Boogster and Poker Source Online, which are extremely reputable sites. Can anyone please vouch for, or share the experience they had at either "VegasProPoker" or "PokerPromotions"? Thanks.

[LargeCents]

I've used VPP and PSO. I had a bad experience with PSO in my one experience with them. I just started with VPP and so far they've gone way above and beyond what I experienced with PSO. Maybe I'm just lucky so far.

[Scuba Chuck]

What was your bad PSO experience?

[Poker Source Online]

[ QUOTE ]
I've used VPP and PSO. I had a bad experience with PSO in my one experience with them. I just started with VPP and so far they've gone way above and beyond what I experienced with PSO. Maybe I'm just lucky so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

LargeCents,

One of our customers notified me today that you were slamming PSO on 2+2 in this thread and this thread:

HERE (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=bonus&Number=3202714&F orum=,,All_Forums,,&Words=&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&M ain=3196662&Search=true&where=&Name=1207&daterange =&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypr ev=#Post3202714)


It looks like you are a long time member of 2+2 and an active poster, so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not a competitor of ours. The reason being is that most stories of poor service or a bad experience with Poker Source Online is nothing more than a fabrication; either that or someone who didn’t follow directions. That is because our number one priority is customer service and we provide this service almost 24x7. Poker Source Online provides a toll free number for support and answers all support questions via our forum within 4 hours, and normally within 30 to 60 minutes. So, I have to call you out by saying that your comments are total crap. First off, you mentioned that “I had to email customer support like 30 times”. Well, if you did in fact email us, you could have emailed us 1,000,000 times and never gotten a reply. Everything on our site says to post in the support forum and that we do NOT do offer support via email. We have 7 support employees who can better serve you via the support forum. Email only goes to one email account and is a much less efficient means of support. You’ll find that information here: http://www.pokersourceonline.com/pso/contact_us.asp on our contact page and if you send an email in for support you will get an automatic reply of “Thank you for your inquiry to Poker Source Online. However, we DO NOT take support questions via email. Please post your support question in our forum at http://www.pokersourceonline.com/forum.”

To sum things up I have to say that you fall in one of the two categories:

- You didn’t follow directions and tried to get support via email and ignored the repeated requests to post in the forum. Even so, I would be curious to look up your account and disclose your history here for everyone including your signup date, the date you completed your requirements, the date your promotion was approved, and the date the items were shipped. That is how confident I am in our process. We don’t ignore our customers and we offer the fastest service of anyone who does what we do. This is irrefutable.

- You are a competitor (or are related to a competitor) of Poker Source Online and are trying to slander us.


I guess the ball is in your court now… I look forward to your reply.

[Rasputin]

[ QUOTE ]
That is because our number one priority is customer service and we provide this service almost 24x7.

[/ QUOTE ]

Judging by the rest of your post, you don't know the meaning of customer service, and it's likely I would never do business with you based on this post.

Which is not to suggest that the other guy isn't a competitor or a complete tool or a guy who likes to dress up in his mother's lingerie because I have no information there.

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason being is that most stories of poor service or a bad experience with Poker Source Online is nothing more than a fabrication; either that or someone who didn’t follow directions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or someone in the Absolute rakeback program, which has been not as advertised and repeatedly mishandled by both sides. Or the Party rakeback program, who didn't get notified of its cancellation except in the forum.

I don't dislike you guys in general, but claiming your process and your service is flawless is out of line.

[Poker Source Online]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The reason being is that most stories of poor service or a bad experience with Poker Source Online is nothing more than a fabrication; either that or someone who didn’t follow directions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or someone in the Absolute rakeback program, which has been not as advertised and repeatedly mishandled by both sides. Or the Party rakeback program, who didn't get notified of its cancellation except in the forum.

I don't dislike you guys in general, but claiming your process and your service is flawless is out of line.

[/ QUOTE ]

I’m not saying we are perfect… we are human beings. However, the fact is we try as hard as possible to do whatever we can to make our customers happy and respond as quick as we can. There is almost never a situation where a post in our forum goes more than a couple hours without a response. That is what I was refuting from this guys post. He said he contacted us 30 times. I don’t really follow what happens on other people’s sites, but I have to imagine that everyone is having the same issues with AP and Party Poker?

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]

I’m not saying we are perfect… we are human beings. However, the fact is we try as hard as possible to do whatever we can to make our customers happy and respond as quick as we can. There is almost never a situation where a post in our forum goes more than a couple hours without a response. That is what I was refuting from this guys post. He said he contacted us 30 times. I don’t really follow what happens on other people’s sites, but I have to imagine that everyone is having the same issues with AP and Party Poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other people here have suggested they regularly get their AP rakeback the first week of the month, rather than the last, for one thing. And there hasn't been a lot of complaining about it being incredibly inaccurate either -- and believe me there would be. I think this is just you guys.

Other affiliates notified their Party rb customers of cancellation by email, ensuring that they all knew it was happening at the time. Months later there are still posts in the PSO forums from people who just now figured it out, and have been playing there for months expecting to be earning rakeback. Thankfully I'm not one of them.

[KKbluff]

Poker Source Online provides a toll free number for support

Does LargeCents not have a telephone?

I swear, all it takes is a freaking phone call.
Never tried PSO (yet), but knowing they have a toll free number I would feel fairly safe.

[Poker Source Online]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I’m not saying we are perfect… we are human beings. However, the fact is we try as hard as possible to do whatever we can to make our customers happy and respond as quick as we can. There is almost never a situation where a post in our forum goes more than a couple hours without a response. That is what I was refuting from this guys post. He said he contacted us 30 times. I don’t really follow what happens on other people’s sites, but I have to imagine that everyone is having the same issues with AP and Party Poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other people here have suggested they regularly get their AP rakeback the first week of the month, rather than the last, for one thing. And there hasn't been a lot of complaining about it being incredibly inaccurate either -- and believe me there would be. I think this is just you guys.

Other affiliates notified their Party rb customers of cancellation by email, ensuring that they all knew it was happening at the time. Months later there are still posts in the PSO forums from people who just now figured it out, and have been playing there for months expecting to be earning rakeback. Thankfully I'm not one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you are a rakeback customer for several sites with us, you know that we post our UB points ahead of schedule each moth as we used to with our Party Poker rakeback when we had it. We are at the mercy of the AP to post their rakeback b/c it is cash deposited directly to the player’s account. Either way, I agree that isn’t your problem as the customer. Since AP rakeback amounts to about 1.5% of our profits and about 60% of our headaches along with the proverbial black eye the past couple of months, I can promise you that AP rakeback will be our number one topic of conversation when we meet with them next month in Las Vegas! Finally, I do know for a fact that the inaccuracies in their payments are across ALL affiliates since they sent an email out to their affiliates (basically falling on their sword) explaining that they were paying on an average and not actual rake amounts. I can’t speak for the timing of payments with other affiliates.

The Party Poker rakeback is something I have to fall on my own sword for. There is a lot of background on that email, but the fact is it didn’t make it most of our customers. We actually identified that after a couple of weeks, but decided not to send it back out not realizing that it didn’t make it to the majority, not minority of customers. By the time we figured everything out it was too late. However, to through a little something positive in here, we did credit almost 1,000 players with rakeback they had not yet earned at a cost of thousands of dollars to us when the program was eliminated. Meaning that anyone who had not yet earned $90 yet in rake, was brought up to $90 no matter how much they had played till that point.

I know this isn’t something I’m going to “win”, so I will leave it at this: we are not perfect, and with over 50,000 customers it is impossible to make everyone happy. It kind of reminds me of my days of selling on eBay. I had a 100% positive feedback rating until I hit my 1,400th sale and got a negative. It was the worst feeling in the world, but it’s inevitable. The point is, no matter how big we get we still treat everyone with the same enthusiasm as we did when we had 50 customers and I still take it really personally when someone isn’t 100% happy.

For those who have used PSO, YMMV, but I've had no problems so far. Granted, I've completed only one site/promotion (Paradise) but there were zero issues. Just my two cents.

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
Finally, I do know for a fact that the inaccuracies in their payments are across ALL affiliates since they sent an email out to their affiliates (basically falling on their sword) explaining that they were paying on an average and not actual rake amounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's good news. Hopfeully they're going to make it up. I don't know which one you are, but it would also benice if Mike would apologize to me for claiming that they were "100% accurate" last week.

I do appreciate the UB posting regularly and quickly. And the occasional promotion problem I've run into hasn't been PSO's fault. So I don't mean to jump down you guys' throats. But saying that people who've had negative experiences are either lying or incompetent isn't acceptable.

[cracker9521]

Wow someone took a really defensive stance. Maybe the poster exaggerated a bit but geez getting so hostile and calling someoneout seems like the opposite of great cs. Possibly a pm to the poster or a simple "what happened let me look into it first" sounds so much more reasonable. I've used PSO and had nothing but praises for you but your response disappoints me.

[KKbluff]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow someone took a really defensive stance. Maybe the poster exaggerated a bit but geez getting so hostile and calling someoneout seems like the opposite of great cs. Possibly a pm to the poster or a simple "what happened let me look into it first" sounds so much more reasonable. I've used PSO and had nothing but praises for you but your response disappoints me.

[/ QUOTE ]

And of course that PM would clear up their reputation that LargeCents was trying to ruin in public. (sarcasim)


I have never used PSO, but the abuse you give them for defending theirself is uncalled for.

[cracker9521]

KKbluff I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not but by all means PSO has a right to defend their reputation. I don't know what largecents problem was but he also has the right to say so if he feels he did. I'm just saying that since PSO is the one providing the service they should react to their customers in a calmer manner and proceed. Makes them look bad when they draw a line in the sand and provide no backstory or rational attempt to rectify the slander.

[LargeCents]

Dear PSO,

The way you left our situation was an insult to me. Thankfully, I have saved the 37 email correspondences that it took for PSO to fulfil a single affiliate signup bonus. I'll be more than happy to post these emails on here if that's how you want things handled. I've been very civil throughout, and will continue to be. I've never said anything that isn't untrue. But, how PSO has left things with me, I am insulted. IF you want to make things right with me, let's take this offline. If you want to do it here. I've got an intelligent audience who will see the truth for what it is.

The ball is in your court now.

LargeCents

[Sifmole]

I have used PSO for several promotions; there were some bumps along the way. The main things that stood out for me were:

1) I --ALWAYS-- got a reply within 6 hours of posting.
2) I honestly felt like PSO was a represntative on my side while working out the issues.
3) The majority of offers I completed went smoothly.

Disclosure -- I did flame out regarding AP rakeback, but that whole thing is just a bundle of troubles; but PSO worked with me and for me to get it ironed out.

The main thing I feel PSO should work on as far as Customer Service goes -- if they want to bother -- is suffering fools who don't read directions better.

[YetioDoom]

I have used PSO for 4 promotions, and haven't had a single problem.

[joeski19]

I've used PSO for 4-5 promo's, and never had a problem. Not only that I've had really fast respone time and shipping.

[Poker Source Online]

[ QUOTE ]
Dear PSO,

The way you left our situation was an insult to me. Thankfully, I have saved the 37 email correspondences that it took for PSO to fulfil a single affiliate signup bonus. I'll be more than happy to post these emails on here if that's how you want things handled. I've been very civil throughout, and will continue to be. I've never said anything that isn't untrue. But, how PSO has left things with me, I am insulted. IF you want to make things right with me, let's take this offline. If you want to do it here. I've got an intelligent audience who will see the truth for what it is.

The ball is in your court now.

LargeCents

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that you have “37 email correspondences” indicates to me that you aren’t in the category I listed above “a competitor (or are related to a competitor) of Poker Source Online and are trying to slander us.” However, I maintain that even one email correspondence is too many (since we have it posted all over our site to post in the forum for support or call our toll free number). Again, with several support personal answering questions in the forum almost 24x7, it’s the most efficient way of providing support. Plus, there are a lot of questions that come up time and time again that can be answered just by reading the forum. Nonetheless, you are a customer of ours and I want to set things right even if you never use PSO again. Just like I said in an earlier post, even back in my eBay days, it always hurt to get a negative feedback - even if it was the customer who was wrong for whatever reason. The same thing stands here; we always want everyone to be happy / satisfied. To be fair to you and everyone else, I’m going to transfer this to PM’s and pledge to report back here once we come to a conclusion. I will not post back here until I get a reply from you and I will send that reply to you for review before posting it.

To the others who have used PSO and have posted here about your positive experience, I want to thank you. For those who have posted about your disappointment because defended ourselves, I’m sorry that you feel that way. We take what we do very seriously and take it very very personally when people post negative things about us. I challenge you to put yourselves in our shoes in an Internet age where people can say anything or do anything. We’ve come accustomed to people saying all kinds of false things about us and coping just about everything that we do. We are very protective of the on thing people can’t copy – our service.

[ QUOTE ]
I've got an intelligent audience who will see the truth for what it is.

LargeCents

[/ QUOTE ]

And that truth is that you ignored the repeated mentions to use the support forum on the site that appear when you click on their "Contact Us" link. Furthermore, you have to check a box before it even allows you to send an email using their form that says "I understand support questions will not receive a reply."

Holding PSO accountable for your lack of reading comprehension is silly.

[grjr]

I AGREE. PSO has been great to me. It is very important to follow directions though.

[LargeCents]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've got an intelligent audience who will see the truth for what it is.

LargeCents

[/ QUOTE ]

And that truth is that you ignored the repeated mentions to use the support forum on the site that appear when you click on their "Contact Us" link. Furthermore, you have to check a box before it even allows you to send an email using their form that says "I understand support questions will not receive a reply."

Holding PSO accountable for your lack of reading comprehension is silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is held accountable for YOUR stupidity? My matter was with PSO before they had a website. Read PSO's last post. PSO existed before their website existed. I am an OG, friend, Not a 2 post troll. People with a brain, here on 2+2 recongnize that.

Future personal attacks in this thread will be ignored. With respect to PSO and our, now private, discussions, I am no longer reading this thread until I get a fast resolution one way or another.

[Orpheus]

[ QUOTE ]
My matter was with PSO before they had a website.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, okay, so it's ancient history--still relevant, but of much less immediate concern. Thanks for the clarification.

[LargeCents]

It has come to and end. My regret, only, is that there ever was a beginning.


PSO and I have completed "discussions". I knew how this was going to go, more or less, when I made PSO a compromise offer, which I thought was fair to both of us. One thing I did NOT expect is the level of PSO threats against ME. In short, PSO has advised me that they have hired a lawyer, specifically paid to deal with what I have written above, in this thread, and HERE (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=bonus&Number=3202714&F orum=,,All_Forums,,&Words=&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&M ain=3196662&Search=true&where=&Name=1207&daterange =&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypr ev=#Post3202714) . PSO has hired a lawyer, yes, you read that correctly. So, you will excuse me if I choose my words very carefully from here on out. I take this threat seriously. I am not a lawyer, I only know what I have said is true and I have no reason to lie.

My story, short version: PSO is the only online site on my "personal blacklist". I have done business with many many online sites over the years, often wondering if/when/how I would ever get what I had coming to me. Never have I put anyone on my "personal blacklist". In my eyes, all PSO ever was, is an Ebay scam, of which people needed to be warned.

The long version: Back about a year and a half ago, I was looking at Poker Chips Sets on Ebay. I ran across various offers where I could get a free poker chip set if I signed up for an online cardroom. It sounded fishy at the time, but I sent emails back and forth with the seller who managed to convince me that it was "legit". Months later, and many emails later, "legit" was only the first in a long series of smokescreens, baited hooks, and other broken promises. To PSO's credit, it was a one-man operation, as much as I could see, and the person in particular, whom I will not name for fear of legal retribution, seemed "in over his head", IMO. That's understandable. What isn't understandable, is if I had a complaint, it was always MY fault. The person that started PSO is still running things, 18 months later, and the "holier than thou attitude" still exists, IMO, if not to an even more elevated level. PSO, now, has grown into a big business, is my understanding. When I made my original comments, I thought I was talking about the same Ebay scam that hooked ME. PSO may have grown and evolved into a wholly different business, I will admit. PSO will forever be on my personal blacklist, now, after this thread's result. It should be obvious to anyone who reads this. But, you know what? PSO doesn't need me. They doesn't. I respect that. But, I don't need them. I demand that they respect ME. I am convinced that they do not.

Conclusion. PSO is over, in my book. This story has an end. It ends here. I will never open this thread again, as I expect to be flamed to the extreme by PSO and/or PSO generated trolls and/or supporters. This is fine. I have said my peace and now I am done. If I EVER maKe a reference to PSO in the future, it will simply be a link to this thread. PSO is now on my mute list as well. I expect them to challenge me in other threads, under gimmick accounts, trying to lure me into continuous traps with provocative lures. I expect the worst. I will not be trapped, again. I have been advised by personal friends here on 2+2 to not enter into a war with PSO like this, because I have nothing to gain. I don't. That's the point. But, that's not what 2+2 is all about. I have been lurking here for years, reading advice from more experienced posters. Now, that I'm the one with experience, I feel morally compelled to tell my story, if there's a story to be told. I will not be bullied into silence. I have thought about this long and hard. I am doing this for you, 2+2. You deserve to know the truth, as it happened to me.

LargeCents

[uaw420rook]

WTF, hiring lawyers. I wonder what court would take a case based on an internet gambling company against a internet Forum poster. I would hope both of you have kept proper records with the IRS before this thing is even filed. Jesus, PSO you have made solid arguments for your operation on here. Leave the little man alone. Another case were the Man has to beat down the little guy.

[Poker Source Online]

[ QUOTE ]
It has come to and end. My regret, only, is that there ever was a beginning.


PSO and I have completed "discussions". I knew how this was going to go, more or less, when I made PSO a compromise offer, which I thought was fair to both of us. One thing I did NOT expect is the level of PSO threats against ME. In short, PSO has advised me that they have hired a lawyer, specifically paid to deal with what I have written above, in this thread, and HERE (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=bonus&Number=3202714&F orum=,,All_Forums,,&Words=&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&M ain=3196662&Search=true&where=&Name=1207&daterange =&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypr ev=#Post3202714) . PSO has hired a lawyer, yes, you read that correctly. So, you will excuse me if I choose my words very carefully from here on out. I take this threat seriously. I am not a lawyer, I only know what I have said is true and I have no reason to lie.

My story, short version: PSO is the only online site on my "personal blacklist". I have done business with many many online sites over the years, often wondering if/when/how I would ever get what I had coming to me. Never have I put anyone on my "personal blacklist". In my eyes, all PSO ever was, is an Ebay scam, of which people needed to be warned.

The long version: Back about a year and a half ago, I was looking at Poker Chips Sets on Ebay. I ran across various offers where I could get a free poker chip set if I signed up for an online cardroom. It sounded fishy at the time, but I sent emails back and forth with the seller who managed to convince me that it was "legit". Months later, and many emails later, "legit" was only the first in a long series of smokescreens, baited hooks, and other broken promises. To PSO's credit, it was a one-man operation, as much as I could see, and the person in particular, whom I will not name for fear of legal retribution, seemed "in over his head", IMO. That's understandable. What isn't understandable, is if I had a complaint, it was always MY fault. The person that started PSO is still running things, 18 months later, and the "holier than thou attitude" still exists, IMO, if not to an even more elevated level. PSO, now, has grown into a big business, is my understanding. When I made my original comments, I thought I was talking about the same Ebay scam that hooked ME. PSO may have grown and evolved into a wholly different business, I will admit. PSO will forever be on my personal blacklist, now, after this thread's result. It should be obvious to anyone who reads this. But, you know what? PSO doesn't need me. They doesn't. I respect that. But, I don't need them. I demand that they respect ME. I am convinced that they do not.

Conclusion. PSO is over, in my book. This story has an end. It ends here. I will never open this thread again, as I expect to be flamed to the extreme by PSO and/or PSO generated trolls and/or supporters. This is fine. I have said my peace and now I am done. If I EVER maKe a reference to PSO in the future, it will simply be a link to this thread. PSO is now on my mute list as well. I expect them to challenge me in other threads, under gimmick accounts, trying to lure me into continuous traps with provocative lures. I expect the worst. I will not be trapped, again. I have been advised by personal friends here on 2+2 to not enter into a war with PSO like this, because I have nothing to gain. I don't. That's the point. But, that's not what 2+2 is all about. I have been lurking here for years, reading advice from more experienced posters. Now, that I'm the one with experience, I feel morally compelled to tell my story, if there's a story to be told. I will not be bullied into silence. I have thought about this long and hard. I am doing this for you, 2+2. You deserve to know the truth, as it happened to me.

LargeCents

[/ QUOTE ]

LargeCents,

I’m glad that you decided to bring this back into the public forum. The folks from Poker Source Online have been doing research for the past couple of days and have been getting prepared to make a reply to whatever post you made. I’m glad to see that your lies continue here in this post, just like they did in the private messages we exchanged. What you also don’t know LargeCents is that we now know your true identity and have all the emails that we corresponded with so many months ago. It’s funny that you mentioned BonusWhores.com in your post, because your forum profile there was where we found our first clues needed to figure out your identity. (What everyone will find out in a little bit is that during all the PMs that we traded over the past couple days on 2+2, LargeCents would never tell us who he was.) We knew we were looking for someone that lives, or lived in Mondovi, WI and had interests in chess and coin collecting (From BW.com profile - I have a screenshot since I'm sure he'll tamper with that). Well, that information along with Google and our email archives where all we needed.

Since LargeCents made a carefully strategic planned post at 6am EST, we are unable to consult our lawyer, but I’m fairly certain that any correspondence that we’ve made over the past couple of days doesn’t fall under our privacy policy. So, as you read through this post you will see all the PMs we traded word for word, but I will only be able to give a summary of the emails we traded since I’m pretty sure they would be covered under our privacy policy. If LargeCents wishes to post them here, he can be my guest.

I will post the complete transcript of our PM conversation below if you want to read it, but I would summarize our conversation in a Cliff Notes fashion this way:

- We requested that this be taken to the PM system to work it out and for LargeCents to please respond
- His reply was to send him a chipset that was “owed” to him AND a copy of Super Systems 2 “as a matter of course for my inconvenience as time has lapsed, and bad feelings felt.”
- We replied back that we just couldn’t send someone that we had no idea who they were a these items as it could be a scam or extortion. We counter offered a free chipset AND a $250 AMEX Gift Card if he would tell us his poker room account name and let us look into it. If he didn’t get what he was owed we wanted to set things right and not only give him the chipset, but a $250 gift card.
- His reply was that his final offer stood and that we had 24 hours to send the chipset or he would post in the forum.
- A couple other PMs exchanged where we pleaded for his username, but it was of no use. We notified him that we consulted out attorney just incase this was a) a competitor trying to make us look bad or b) someone who stole our identity. It turned out to be neither of those.

Again, you can see a complete transcript of our PM conversation WORD FOR WORD below. Now, again, I can’t past a transcript of the emails we exchanged due to our privacy policy, but I can outline them below.



3/23/04 – LargeCents contacted us about an offer we where running on eBay for a free set of poker chip in exchange for signing up for online poker.

3/23/04 – 3/28/04 – We discussed the terms of the offer and went back and forth a few times. LargeCents said he found a better offer than ours for two poker books instead of the offer we where running, but was willing to use us if we could match the other offer. We agreed to send him two books in exchange for signing up for online poker.

3/28/04 – 4/13/04 – We exchanged over 10 emails with LargeCents with him telling us that he was having problems with his Neteller account and he couldn’t get it funded and he would do so ASAP. A key highlight during this timeframe was an email from LargeCents on 4/9/05 telling us that he still hadn’t gotten his account funded. We explained to him that Pacific Poker canceled the free chips and book offer with us and if he were to deposit at that point we would not get paid. We asked him to deposit at Party Poker instead and we would give him $80 cash. This would cover his $50 deposit and still leave money to buy the books. He declined our offer saying that he was going to open his Party Poker account via someone that offered him a 75% rake rebate (I’m not kidding, I had to read the email 3 times to be sure). So, just so we are clear here, we informed LargeCents that we were not going to get paid from our partner because they canceled the program with us, but he still wanted to move forward with the offer AND WE AGREED!

4/14/04 – LargeCents funds his poker account and we don’t even bother verifying his account because we aren’t getting paid for it anyway. We just ship the books and hope to be done with this soon.

4/19/04 – We get an email from LargeCents that only one book showed up and not the two that he was promised. We researched it for a couple of days and had a shipping receipt that for two books.

4/24/04 – We shipped another copy of the book out via USPS Media Mail.

4/29/04 – We get an email saying the book still hasn’t shown up.

5/2/04 – We agree to give it one more week to show up since Media Mail can take up to 14 days. (I will admit that shipping the book media mail was really stupid, but we switch all our shipments to media mail at this time to save money on shipping since we paid for that out of our own pocket. This was a bad experiment that lasted only two weeks).

5/9/04 – We get an email from LargeCents that there is still no book. We agree to ship another out this time via Priority Mail with a tracking number! The book ships on 5/11/04

5/14/04 – We get an email from LargeCents that there is still no book. We look up the tracking number and see that it will be there the next day and to look out for it.

5/15/04 – We get an email for LargeCents that the book arrived. He also asks for a FREE set of poker chips on top of the two books “due to my inconvenience”. We tell him NO and that we are insulted since we didn’t get paid a penny for sending him a total of 4 books.


-------------------------------------------

LARGECENTS FIRST PM:

Dear PSO,

I'm going to make this short and sweet.

PSO is on my "personal" blacklist. I have done business with dozens of online businesses,over the years, never have I blacklisted anyone. From my posts, you can tell, I have no interest in PSO. If it comes up in conversation, I relay my own personal experience if I think the information will help someone else from getting burned. Obviously, I haven't had much too say. I have no personal interest in PSO one way or another at this point, except to not do business with PSO.

I imagine, I was one of your very first customers, as you seem unclear of my exact indentity. I'll admit it was a while ago, but the way I was treated, it is hard to forget.

Our current situation is this. You want me to quit bashing PSO, is my understanding. My personal motive, if any, is simply to illustrate my treatment in doing business with PSO, when asked about it. This current thread seems to have a lot of questions of me, which I am happy to answer, as I have time and inclination. I imagine, PSO, at this point suddenly has an interst in "silencing" me. Fine. Send me what I am owed, and I will agree to have a future response of "No Comment" regarding PSO in all future reference to PSO. Not exactly a glowing review. But, it is what it is.

If you want to go further, and have a review from me of more than "No Comment", I would request something in addition to what simply is owed to me, as a course of my inconvenience and time passed regarding this matter.

My request: the 500 count chipset that is owed to me, shipped. When the chipset arrives on my doorstep, my response to PSO with henceforce be "No Comment", if any response whatsoever. If you want to have a review from me that is more than "No Comment", also send a copy of "Super System 2", as a matter of course for my inconveniece as time has lapsed, and bad feelings felt.

This is my offer. I hope I am perfectly clear. You can tell I am very serious about my offer and there is no negotiation. Your answer is "Yes or No" to the offer. I am awaiting your reply.

LargeCents


OUR FIRST REPLY:

So you want us to send you a set of poker chips without knowing who you are or anything about you? I don’t think so. The answer to your black male offer is “no”, but we will make the following counter offer….

Send us your Pacific Poker account name along with a copy of the 37 emails that we corresponded via. You claim that you signed up via PSO and that we “screwed” you. Well, if that is the case then we will send you the 500 set of poker chips we owe you PLUS a $250 American Express gift card that you can spend on anything you like. That’s a lot better than a $30 book. We’ll send you that stuff not to “shut you up” or get you to say “no comment”, but because we would truly feel bad that you didn’t get what we promised.

I’m also curious… you said that you signed up with us before we had a website? How did you find out about us then?

PSO

-----------------------

LARGECENTS REPLY:

Dear PSO,

You already know the answer to your questions.

This is not a blackmail offer.

I don't trust you or do business with PSO. There is no negotiation. I know that you will screw me any way you can and your offer is only an attempt to do so. No I will not let you buy time. I will not let you "check into things". This has already been done and unresolved. If you want my evidence. I will share it in an open forum in 2+2.

My final offer stands.

LargeCents

-----------------------

OUR REPLY BACK:

LargeCents,

How do I know the answer to my questions when I have no idea who the heck you are?

You don’t trust PSO??? How about we don’t trust you as far as we can through you? We just offered to send you a set of poker chips AND $250 and you told us to go pound sand. You have nothing to lose, but you don’t want the chips and the gift card?

PSO
----------
HIS REPLY:

Mike Jackness,

I really don't care. It hurts that you don't even remember me. But, that doesn't matter to me anymore. I imagine we will go around in circles for another 37 PMs, if I let it. I won't.

If you want to continue to put words in my mouth, such as "pound sand", I think we know where this is going to go. I will continue to be an anti-PSO voice in 2+2.

You've slapped me in the face once. I turned the other cheek. You are basically slapping me again. In 24 hours, I won't be yours to slap anymore.

You've got 24 hours from the time I sent my original offer. Take it or leave it. I'm not playing games. I'm just sick of it. I'm trying my hardest to stay civil about this matter.

Good Day.

LargeCents

----------

OUR REPLY:

LargeCents,

I’m not sure how you expect me to remember you from over a year and a half ago when we have over 50,000 customers and have shipped over 250,000 items. I’m not even sure that I’m the one you were working with at PSO at the time anyway. Why won’t you tell me what poker room you signed up with (I assume it was Pacific since that is the only room we worked with when we first started) and what your username is there? I also have to wonder if you have the wrong people / site??? Are you 100% sure it was Poker Source Online you were dealing with? What is the PSO email address this elicit correspondence transpired with?

PSO


HIS REPLY:

I am speaking to Mike Jackness, correct?

LargCents
-------------------

OUR FINAL REPLY:

No, but he is one of my partners and is aware of the situation and I’ve been talking to him a lot about this. We genuinely don’t know who you are just by you saying that you had 37 emails with us and your 2+2 forum name LargeCents since that doesn’t come up in any of our databases. In fact, this situation just boggles our mind since we have truly always been about customer service. I just can’t imagine a situation where we would correspond with a customer that many times and not give them the gift they were due. On top of that you are suggesting that you knew of us before we even had a website. Well, that was the first two weeks we were in business and selling the free poker chip auctions on eBay. We had our website up within the first two weeks, so it can only be in that timeframe. Just to be clear, we are talking about March / April of 2004. To complicate the situation here even more, during that timeframe (in fact during our first 2-3 months in business) we always sent the free gifts to people even if they made a mistake just to build out business and not risk getting any type of negative feedback for any reason, even if it was the customer’s fault. The only exception would be is if it was a blatant scam.

There are only 3 situations that we can figure that you can fall in:

1. You are a competitor or some sort and are having a really good laugh about this. We’ve already contact our lawyer just incase this is the case to protect us. If this is the case, which I really truly hope it isn’t, we will do everything in our power to take this as far as we can under the law. This is our full time job along with 7 employees and something we take very seriously.

2. A competitor took our identity or Mike Jackness’ identity and somehow got you to sign up for a free set of chips or a poker book. This is also a possibility and another reason we contacted our lawyer. That is why I asked what email address you were corresponding with. Just so you know, we have NEVER done business anywhere with the exception of eBay and www.pokersourceonlien.com. (http://www.pokersourceonlien.com.) If you “found” us anywhere else it wasn’t a part of PSO or Mike, Jay, or Peter.

3. We thought you were trying to scam us for some reason and just wouldn’t give you the free gift. OR, we had conclusive evidence that you didn’t follow the signup procedure.


I guess in closing if you are in category 1, then we are never going to get anywhere and we’ll see you in court. If you are in category 2, then I hope you will work with us in everyway possible to put whoever stole our identity in jail! If you fall in category 3 then I’m willing to defend ourselves in the forum. I’m not sure if you understand how our business works or not, but we get paid a commission from our partners to bring them a new poker room account. We get paid that commission ONLY if the player signs up correctly under us and plays the required raked hands. We’ve been doing this for over 18 months now and we didn’t build such a huge loyal customer base by scamming people. There just isn’t a situation where we wouldn’t send someone an item they were due.

If you do fall in category 3, or even worse are someone who we legitimately owe a gift to, I would like you to put yourself in our shoes. There is someone in the forum who will not tell us who he is, declined an offer that was 10x better than what he wanted, and who is coming off as blackmailing us. I ask you to think about what you would do and then think about how genuine our offer was with the gift card. If you are in category 3 we truly want to do whatever we can to help you, but we have to know who you are. I’m not trying to “slap you around”, in fact I’m trying to help you. If you are in category 1, we’re going to feel really stupid basically pleading with you to “help us help you”. That’s all we have to offer…


HIS FINAL REPLY:

Hi PSO,

The last message was definitely not written by Mike. I imagine it was written by the lawyer. How do I know? There wasn't a single reference to "sand pounding". But, in all seriousness, I am just a customer who got lost in the shuffle, somehow. I don't explain it. I am just telling my story. With all of those customers, hey, it happens. I am just so amazed that the talk has to the come to the point of lawyers, lawsuits, etc.

Your last message was extremely thought out and well written. It is the first message that I can say that about. I am again amazed that you have taken my case to such a high degree of scrutiny. Why did it have to come to this? Mike? You mention in the last message, that you sent out free chip sets just to secure your reputation. I just don't see it. I just don't. Not the way my case was handled. I'm just coming off a 5 hour online poker session, so I am a bit frazzled. But, I just don't know how it had to come to this. I just don't. Even if I believe everything you say. But, after all of the lies, I just can believe you anymore PSO. I can't trust you.

That's the point. I can't trust a single thing you guys say. Results is all the really matters, isn't it? The results of my case were badly handled, and I have never made it a secret. PSO response? YOU are the problem. YOU must've did something wrong, because WE are perfect. These is the prevailing thought processes of PSO. Of course, I oversimply, perhaps. But, not by much.

To the lawyer: Let Mike show you the 2+2 thread that has lead us to this point. Read it. Ask him how it has come to this. You seem intelligent, logical, etc. How has it come to this point? Involving lawyers? I am a disgruntled customer who didn't get his poker chip set? Suddenly a lawyer becomes involved. I am flattered, actually, but it doesn't makes sense. It just doesn't.

Obviously, most of you at PSO are missing about 2 months and dozens of emails of correspondence between Mike and myself. I don't know if Mike is purely a support guy, or if he is the main guy. I assume the latter. If not, dude, I am so sorry if you get canned or anything. But, put yourself in MY shoes.

I was a customer, did my part, didn't like the way things went, and I tell my story. What have I done wrong? The point of this entire exchange is that you don't want me speaking badly about PSO. I can respect that. You've got a business, you trade on your credibility, etc. But, you know what, you don't have a monopoly on credibility. 2+2 is a place where we can exchange ideas, etc. If I had a bad experience, I tell my friends... That's how the real world works. If I go to the McDonald's down the street and get a bad milkshake, you bet I'm gonna tell people, if it comes up. Does McDonald's climb up my ass and demand satisfaction? Think about it.

I don't know where I am going with this specific PM. I just don't get you, PSO. It isn't about a poker chip set. It isn't about a book. If Mike wants to come to my house and face me man to man and give me a formal apology, hey, that's all I want. I want satisfaction. I want PSO to say, hey, things went bad, or whatever, but we can move on. I have never gotten close to this type of line from PSO. NEVER!!!

You have my offer. We all know where this is going to go. I have nothing else to say. The above is just gibberish, more or less. My thoughts and feelings. But, I know that all means nothing to you PSO. You want a lawsuit. Well, sue me!

LargeCents

[Poker Source Online]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF, hiring lawyers. I wonder what court would take a case based on an internet gambling company against a internet Forum poster. I would hope both of you have kept proper records with the IRS before this thing is even filed. Jesus, PSO you have made solid arguments for your operation on here. Leave the little man alone. Another case were the Man has to beat down the little guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really, you might want to read the post I just made.

[PrincipalSkinner]

All this crap over a freakin' CHIP SET?? God, I hate the whole "affiliate" racket. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

I was extremely apprehensive about the Instant Bankroll promotion offered by PSO. I am a difficult and demanding customer but was completely satisfied with the customer service I received. This is my only experience with their promotions but everything worked smoothly and I received my $100 after completing the terms of the offer.

One thing, I think many of these promotions and offers can be extremely complicated and I personally would hate to be on the customer service end given all the intricacies and nuances. I do think a negative perception is being created by PSO; even if it's not their fault. I'd rather pay Large Cents the money than face continued negative feedback. If his gripe is legitimate or not it costs your business the same to have him complain. But what do I know; perhaps this stubborn insistence is what made your business what it is.

Jeffrey (extremely satisfied with the Instant Bankroll promotion offered by PSO)

[PrincipalSkinner]

The big loser here is PSO--everybody has disagreements and conflicts; consequently any thinking person is interested in how a prospective business partner handles conflicts.

Threaten to call a lawyer? I don't think there are too many of us who want to do business with somebody who has to resort to this.

You seem to have forgotten the old adage about "the customer is always right". It doesn't really matter how much of a fruitcake you think the OP is, your place is to be polite and respectful and accomodating--just to get rid of him with minimal hassle, if nothing else.

Instead you come across like Mr. Bigshot who doesn't have to take guff from anybody, by God you'll make him pay for slamming your operation, etc.

Yeah, well, you'll lose a lot of business this way. I think it's called "being right, dead right, but just as dead as if you were wrong." /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MrBlueNose]

[ QUOTE ]
The big loser here is PSO--everybody has disagreements and conflicts; consequently any thinking person is interested in how a prospective business partner handles conflicts.

Threaten to call a lawyer? I don't think there are too many of us who want to do business with somebody who has to resort to this.

You seem to have forgotten the old adage about "the customer is always right". It doesn't really matter how much of a fruitcake you think the OP is, your place is to be polite and respectful and accomodating--just to get rid of him with minimal hassle, if nothing else.

Instead you come across like Mr. Bigshot who doesn't have to take guff from anybody, by God you'll make him pay for slamming your operation, etc.

Yeah, well, you'll lose a lot of business this way. I think it's called "being right, dead right, but just as dead as if you were wrong." /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

So what you're saying is if everyone wants a free poker chipset, they should just come on here and badmouth PSO and PSO should just send it to them to 'shut them up'? You're real smart.

[PrincipalSkinner]

Sir, I want to thank you for sharing your interpretation of my post. Additionally, I'd like to apologize for not measuring up in the "smarts" department; and for any distress that my shortcomings may have caused. Where would you like me to send your free chip set? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Freakin]

[ QUOTE ]
The big loser here is PSO--everybody has disagreements and conflicts; consequently any thinking person is interested in how a prospective business partner handles conflicts.

Threaten to call a lawyer? I don't think there are too many of us who want to do business with somebody who has to resort to this.

You seem to have forgotten the old adage about "the customer is always right". It doesn't really matter how much of a fruitcake you think the OP is, your place is to be polite and respectful and accomodating--just to get rid of him with minimal hassle, if nothing else.

Instead you come across like Mr. Bigshot who doesn't have to take guff from anybody, by God you'll make him pay for slamming your operation, etc.

Yeah, well, you'll lose a lot of business this way. I think it's called "being right, dead right, but just as dead as if you were wrong." /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

They didn't consult a lawyer to find out how to get this guy back for his slander as a customer. They hired a lawyer to find out if they had any options if a) a competitor was spreading false information b) if someone had stolen their identity and used it to con someone into signing up under their affiliate link.

I think the whole lawyer thing has been blown out of proportion.

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]

They didn't consult a lawyer to find out how to get this guy back for his slander as a customer. They hired a lawyer to find out if they had any options if a) a competitor was spreading false information b) if someone had stolen their identity and used it to con someone into signing up under their affiliate link.

I think the whole lawyer thing has been blown out of proportion.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems to me to be clearly a case where consulting counsel is warranted, although I don't see the point of telling LargeCents you're doing it. I think people are expressing a knee-jerk reaction to the word "lawyer" without really thinking this through. I'm certain PSO has neither the ability nor the intention of litigating against a customer, no matter how dissatisfied.

Since I'm posting in this thread anyway, I ought to add that I got the apology I asked for, and Mike seems willing to work with me to get the money I'm owed.

It's also worth mentioning that people attempt to scam PSO on a daily basis. I think if any of us were in that situation we'd tend not to take anyone's word at face value either.

[naschburger2]

I have done three promotions with pokersourceonline and referred many people who all completed promotions with no problems. I hate to see a site that I think does a great job be maligned not only for supposed problems but also for defending themselves.

[Tk79]

http://home.no/nekholm/pics/funny/forumpics/arguing.jpg
Sorry, thought this certianly applied.

[billyb]

I have done 8 Pso promotions so far with very little problems.
I had just signed up for the party Rakeback the month it got cancelled and they credited me with the points for doing the promo. Party is the one who cancelled the rakeback not PSO.

Pso try's very very had to take care of thier customers.
Now are they always perfect No, But who is ?????

My Ub rakeback gets posted everymonth on time.

Mike, Jay, Dan and everyone else there go way out of thier way for thier customers.

JMHO
Billy B
Go Patriots.

[smoore]

[ QUOTE ]
http://home.no/nekholm/pics/funny/forumpics/arguing.jpg
Sorry, thought this certianly applied.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha, only a matter of time before someone broke out that .jpg... one of the most offensive on the 'net (including tubgirl.jpg) but DAMN funny!

I concur.

[theben]

he went broke before he cleared his promos cause he is a moron.

PSO = good

Flaming PSO = whiney vag

[xenion]

[ QUOTE ]
I have done 8 Pso promotions so far with very little problems.
I had just signed up for the party Rakeback the month it got cancelled and they credited me with the points for doing the promo. Party is the one who cancelled the rakeback not PSO.

Pso try's very very had to take care of thier customers.
Now are they always perfect No, But who is ?????


[/ QUOTE ]

I thought I would chime in here in PSO's defense. I have also done 6 or 7 promos through them and am very happy with their service. From PSO I have recieved a $500 party gift certificate, a 500 chipset, and a few books.

Whenever there were issues, PSO did what needed to be done to remedy the situation. I have made many referrals to the InstantBankroll and other PSO promos. All of them have been happy.

However, I am also disappointed with your response to this customer PSO. I'm not sure what the best way to handle the situation would be, but surely this isn't it.

Satisfied Customer
xigxag

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
The big loser here is PSO--everybody has disagreements and conflicts; consequently any thinking person is interested in how a prospective business partner handles conflicts.

Threaten to call a lawyer? I don't think there are too many of us who want to do business with somebody who has to resort to this.

You seem to have forgotten the old adage about "the customer is always right". It doesn't really matter how much of a fruitcake you think the OP is, your place is to be polite and respectful and accomodating--just to get rid of him with minimal hassle, if nothing else.

Instead you come across like Mr. Bigshot who doesn't have to take guff from anybody, by God you'll make him pay for slamming your operation, etc.

Yeah, well, you'll lose a lot of business this way. I think it's called "being right, dead right, but just as dead as if you were wrong." /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly, 100 percent, correct.

[Poker Source Online]

First, I want to thank Tk79 for his post. While totally inappropriate, it’s 100% applicable to this and made me chuckle for the first time in a couple of days. However, we still haven’t learned our lesson and are going to make one final post in this thread. Second, after reading some of the replies here, it’s apparent that some of you haven’t read our all other posts. We encourage you to do so before you make your comments. Contrary to what some of you think, we actually welcome your feedback; we just think you should be well informed when you make these comments. When we see some of the comments here, it’s obvious that you don’t have the whole story.

Now that we got that out of the way….

The purpose of this post to have everyone to understand our point of view. While we don’t expect everyone to agree with us, we want everyone to know where we are coming from. There has been a lot of criticism in this thread about Poker Source Online not respecting the original poster’s opinion and attacking someone for speaking their opinion. There has also been a lot of criticism of PSO being all “high and mighty” and thinking our “poop don’t stink”.

The first thing we want to get across is that we have NO problem with someone speaking their mind about Poker Source Online. While we do our best in every possible way to make sure when someone does say something about PSO, it’s positive. BUT, it’s impossible to make everyone happy and the fact is we ARE human, so not everything always goes 100% perfect. We also rely on a lot of partners to give us information so we can do our job. While this isn’t ultimately the customer’s responsibility, it is something we struggle with everyday. You might be thinking, how can we say all this without being hypocritical when we basically attacked the original poster? Well, this is the Internet folks, and along with it comes a lot of challenges. They include people misrepresenting themselves, people scamming us, people copying our ideas, people PMing our customers about other offers, and the list goes on and on. We’ll get back to some of these other points later, but….. The reason the original poster was attacked is because we knew he was LYING, and that is one thing we just cannot tolerate! Nothing pisses us off more, or faster than someone spreading lies about us and trying to destroy everything we have worked so hard to build. This isn’t the first time we have been falsely attacked, and I’m sure it will not be the last. It just boggles our mind that people are ok with this!!!!!!! You didn’t see us attacking other posters in this thread for speaking their mind, but the things they said were 100% true. The best we can do is respond to them, help them, and apologize to them if necessary. I guess the next question is how could we attack the original poster in a guilty before proven innocent fashion? Well, what he was saying just wasn’t possible. There is just no way on the face of this earth that someone would email us 37 times, and there is no way on the face of this earth that we wouldn’t give someone a free gift that was coming to them. That might make us sound “high and mighty” but it’s the truth folks! We take care of our customers plain and simple! We didn’t build a HUGE customer base (90% by word of mouth) by not taking care of people or screwing people! If we had ANY doubt, trust us, we would have inquired before doing anything. As it turns out, we were right. Not only did the original poster get everything that was promised to him, it wasn’t even a Poker Source Online transaction. It was an eBay transaction, but nonetheless it was with the founders of PSO and a similar offer. The thing is eBay is a little bit different. First of all, it is customary, and it was a part of the terms of our auction to pay within 10 days. Anyone who has done eBay knows this to be true. Well, the original poster didn’t “pay” for his auction (by depositing at the poker room) for almost a month, much longer than the customary payment timeframe. Since this has already been covered, long story short, the poker room canceled the deal with us, we still honored the transaction, one of the customer’s books were lost in the mail (twice), and the entire transaction took under a month from the time he deposited to the time his second book showed up. One final point on this transaction: Yes, 37 emails did exchange hands during this transaction, but only 12 of them where after the customer deposited and all the emails were answered within 24 hours. So in final on this topic, I think we were 100% justified in defending ourselves in this case. We have a right to do that and as you read further in this post you will also come to understand why we are so “touchy” when it comes to this.


Now, you might think the main purpose of Poker Source Online is to send free gifts to people in exchange for signing up for online poker. Well, as we mentioned before, this is the Internet, and while sending free gifts to customers might have been our primary objective at one time, it’s now defending ourselves and our partners against scammers, liars, and cheats. Yes folks, it happens, and not just once a month, but SEVERAL TIMES A DAY. That’s not a typo, several times a day. So, as you can imagine, we have become very accustom to this and have adapted quite well to smelling this out. It’s almost instinctive at this point. While most of these “attacks” are quite private, some of them to become public. We have defended ourselves of this in the past and will continue to do so in the future. However, it’s still amazing to me how quickly people side with the original posters in these cases so quickly and usually without question. Again, this is the Internet everybody and I encourage you to not side against PSO or other companies so quickly. The most recent “big” attack was a customer who attacked us by saying that we gave crappy service to the handicap and made fun of them. People immediately jumped down our throat, people vowed to never us PSO again (even long time customers), people threatened to turn us into the BBB, etc. It was unbelievable. However, we defended ourselves and people continued to pour in to tell us how poorly we handled the situation. After all, this guy was a customer! But, the way that it turned out in the end was this customer stole his father’s identity, we caught him, and he used his poor father’s handicap to bash PSO. It was a scam all along and we knew it from the start, still it was bad business practice to defend ourselves of these lies?

To build on the above, we didn’t know what to think when these posts and PM’s starting happening here on 2+2. Since we have so many scams happen to us, to the point where we are almost paranoid about it, we really just didn’t know what to think. What this really a customer? Was this a competitor trying yet again to make us look bad? Who knows... It sure wouldn’t be the first time a competitor has used less than ethical means to compete against us. After all, the competitor mentioned in this thread has a long history with PSO. We first ran into him on eBay where he copied our auctions, along with all of our pictures, literally word for word. In fact, the copying was so grievous that eBay canceled all of his auctions. Well, here we are almost 18 months later and he has most all of our graphics on his site and the layout is almost exactly the same. Don’t believe us? Take a look around with the sites side by site. While most of this is hard to prove, the most glaring evidence is their Party Poker review where Mike’s fiancée is winning the hand at the table with a Royal Flush! Yup, MYEH818 is one of the partner’s of PSO’s fiancée! There she is playing at the Party Poker table, but wait, it’s our copyrighted graphic on their site. We’re sure this will change shortly, don’t worry, we have a screen shot. We’re sure there will be plenty of you that will think it’s inappropriate to even post this here, and that’s fine - you are entitled to your opinion. The fact of the matter is it is true and we too smart to say anything that is remotely slanderous and risk any legal problems. Fact is not slanderous. We know that competition is only natural (we welcome it because it makes us strive to be better), but don’t insult us by ripping off our content that we worked so hard to do! Let me give you an example…. McDonald’s had a great idea with their fast food restaurants. Well, now there is Burger King, Wendy’s, Roy Rogers, etc. Nothing wrong with that. However, you don’t see Burger King with the same exact menu, the same exact colors, same exact cooking methods, etc. You also don’t see executives from Burger King standing inside McDonalds passing out flyers to their establishment. You don’t hear of Burger King Executives calling McDonald’s business partners and spreading lies about them. Well, PSO has been the victim of various competitors who have stolen our content, private messaged hundreds of our customers, who have post lies about us in forums, and who have spread lies about us to our partners. What our competitors don’t know is that we aren’t stupid. We have very loyal customers that tell us about these things and have an IT background with the ability to extract this info from our database and save it for later if need be. We also have really good relationships with our partners and they share things with us they probably shouldn’t – like emails sent in confidence to bash and spread lies about PSO! This is something that happens on a fairly regular basis and is an added reason why we are so quick to defend ourselves. After 18 months of these types of events it’s easy to be skittish about anything that happens surrounding us. We put a lot of hard work into this business and all of our ideas, content, and graphics are 100% original. It’s very frustrating to have them simply ripped off or people lie to further their own good.

In closing we would like to say this: Everyone was quick to commend the OP for telling the truth and exposing the situation (which wasn’t really the truth). How come it’s inappropriate for us to tell the TRUTH? Was this an inappropriate way to handle this situation? Maybe. However, it would have meant continued false attacks against PSO. Again, this is the Internet, but behind PSO are real people who are VERY dedicated to what we do. We have real feelings and are VERY proud of what we have accomplished. We are also VERY dedicated to our customers. We also have a lot of pride and continued unfounded attacks against PSO are just not something we can accept. We DO operate with the philosophy of the customer is always right, but we don’t respond well to lies, unreasonableness, threats, extortion, scam, or blackmail. Almost all of these attributes have been exhibited here. Finally, we know that very few people have gotten to this point in this post, for crying out loud we basically wrote a novel. However, if you have gotten this far, we thank you for reading. It feels good to get this off our chest and we hope you have come to understand what it’s like to live a day in the live of an Internet business. We know that you might not agree with everything, but we thank you for reading nonetheless.

[naschburger2]

wow quite a story I found it interesting how pso started on ebay. Is that story detailed anywhere on the pso site I would lke to read more sounds fascinating. Keep up the good work I for one think you have every right to defend yourselves. My final word is give us: MORE AND BIGGER FREEROLLS lol

[nfpceo]

Wow, very informative post. The fact you go into soo much detail and effort to show your side of the story shows how much you care about your customers and your reputation. I have done 2 promos with your site and was very pleased.

My only problem is you don't, at least to my knowledge, list on your site where you company is based (USA?), and what kind of company you are (partnership, LLC, C-corp). This was the only thing that made me a bit afraid to try your service. It just made me think you were trying to hide something. I think adding this info would add legitimacy to your business.

[ QUOTE ]
We take care of our customers plain and simple! We didn’t build a HUGE customer base (90% by word of mouth) by not taking care of people or screwing people!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
How did you hear about us? There is a good chance it was from a friend or an online forum because Poker Source Online gets 45% of its business by word of mouth. (link (http://www.pokersourceonline.com/referral/))

[/ QUOTE ]
Now I don't know what to believe! /images/graemlins/wink.gif Sorry, I couldn't pass a teasing opportunity up!

[TheBigFlop]

Great story, i think i just wasted 1.5 hrs of my life. For what it's worth, going back to the original quesiton, I have tried the third tenor /images/graemlins/wink.gif, boogster.com, and i have received my 3 gifts from them through several signups. Good customer service and fast delivery.

[smoore]

way too much info, PSO... no way in hell my lazy ass is going to read all that.

You guys hooked me up on the few deposits I hadn't made already... my timer works flawlessly and the books I got with my amazon gift card are exactly the same books I could order from 2+2. Perfect service, will buy from this seller again! A++++++++++++++

That said, please RE: the above .jpg

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Although I didn't read your last post, most of this thread could be summed:

Him: U skrewed me!
U: Prove it!
Him: NO!
U: SCRU U then!
Him: Oh Yeah?!?!?
U: OK, really, prove it.
Him: Hm, ok... kerduhhhhh
U: OK, Here.
Him: Not good enough.
U: SCRU U, scammer
Him: I'll tell!
U: Fine... here
Him: U SUX!
U: kerduhhhhhhhh

(both in unison): duh bur buh kaffa kerduhhhhhh


I'd honestly let it drop... You can't satisfy every customer, some you just have to let be disgruntled.

[PrincipalSkinner]

Your laughing at the retarded child (chuckle, chuckle, I know it's totally inappropriate, chuckle, chuckle) removes any lingering doubt about your character.

[kiemo]

While I support PSO 100% and it seems PSO has gone completely out of their way to appease Largecents (according to the information he should have never receieved ANYTHING becuase the promotion he wanted to complete was no longer available - try walking into a department store and getting last weeks sales price), they still come off looking bad in this thread, just becuase the adage in the previosuly posted picture holds absolutely true.

[Poker Source Online]

[ QUOTE ]
While I support PSO 100% and it seems PSO has gone completely out of their way to appease Largecents (according to the information he should have never receieved ANYTHING becuase the promotion he wanted to complete was no longer available - try walking into a department store and getting last weeks sales price), they still come off looking bad in this thread, just becuase the adage in the previosuly posted picture holds absolutely true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone else posts complete crap and lies and we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. It's like being in a poker hand where you are drawing dead! We had no outs. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[RainDog]

Phew, that's one marathon I care not to run again. I for one don't really care who's absolutely right in this retard race. I do however have a degree of professionalism and etiquette that I hold individuals to when dealing with business matters. You can expect a percentage of poker players to be degenerate loons (which may or not be true in this case...doesn't matter), but there is an appropriate manner in which to deal with these individuals. This tangent of rant that PSO has went on, with "crap" this and "crap" that, has certainly discouraged this individual from any future dealings with them. All this huffy puffy banter is not reminescent of calm and orderly business tactics, but rather makes PSO sound like a group of grumpy frat kids.

[ QUOTE ]
Someone else posts complete crap and lies and we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. It's like being in a poker hand where you are drawing dead! We had no outs. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
The key is not to get down and fling mud back at a mud-flinger.

Even if you're 100% in the right (which you seem to be in this case), people hold businesses to a much higher standard than they do a (theoretical) random loony. You're supposed to be better than human. Unfair, maybe, but that's the way it is in a service-oriented society.

People constantly use message boards to whine about something that was in reality all their fault. You can't go mano a mano with them. Just state your side in the NICEST possible terms. You don't have to capitulate. Some people will ALWAYS choose to side with the (theoretical) loony, and that's something you likely won't change. Just say your piece, NICELY, and leave it to people's intelligence to sort out.

Does that make sense?

[Duece Three]

I've not used either of these before, but I wanted to pass on information for free $50 cash into new Party Poker accounts...

mygreenchip.com site (http://clicks.aweber.com/z/ct/?iWiASfr82RUYUFcIY.vvaA)

(I'm actually having trouble getting to the website this morning, but I assure you it is real. A friend of my and myself have both done this.)

This person is offering $50 cash into new Party Poker accounts. It must be your first real money account with Party. The link explains everything, and it is real...

Anyway, most people here probably already have a Party Poker account, but if you don't, here is $50 for you to get started.

If you care to do so, please enter my account as how you heard of this offer on the greenchip website. It is t07a09. I'm not affiliated with this site, but if others take advantage of this offer, they will deposit more cash in my account.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions or concerns.

[DuggleBogey]

[ QUOTE ]
I've not used either of these before, but I wanted to pass on information for free $50 cash into new Party Poker accounts...

mygreenchip.com site (http://clicks.aweber.com/z/ct/?iWiASfr82RUYUFcIY.vvaA)

(I'm actually having trouble getting to the website this morning, but I assure you it is real. A friend of my and myself have both done this.)

This person is offering $50 cash into new Party Poker accounts. It must be your first real money account with Party. The link explains everything, and it is real...

Anyway, most people here probably already have a Party Poker account, but if you don't, here is $50 for you to get started.

If you care to do so, please enter my account as how you heard of this offer on the greenchip website. It is t07a09. I'm not affiliated with this site, but if others take advantage of this offer, they will deposit more cash in my account.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions or concerns.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's funny, because the aforementioned PSO gives $100...

[billyb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Someone else posts complete crap and lies and we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. It's like being in a poker hand where you are drawing dead! We had no outs. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
The key is not to get down and fling mud back at a mud-flinger.

Even if you're 100% in the right (which you seem to be in this case), people hold businesses to a much higher standard than they do a (theoretical) random loony. You're supposed to be better than human. Unfair, maybe, but that's the way it is in a service-oriented society.

People constantly use message boards to whine about something that was in reality all their fault. You can't go mano a mano with them. Just state your side in the NICEST possible terms. You don't have to capitulate. Some people will ALWAYS choose to side with the (theoretical) loony, and that's something you likely won't change. Just say your piece, NICELY, and leave it to people's intelligence to sort out.

Does that make sense?

[/ QUOTE ]

The Only problem as I see it is that People Will believe what they want to believe, which may or may not be the truth.

[Duece Three]

Too bad for me...

I guess I should have started looking here before I signed up through the other site...

[Cassius]

[ QUOTE ]
duh bur buh kaffa kerduhhhhhh

[/ QUOTE ]

So was I the only one who just had to actually say that out loud sitting in my cubicle?

[DuggleBogey]

Not originally, but now I did...

Thanks a lot! My cube neighbors think I'm retarded. Even more than normal.

[uaw420rook]

Please disregard my previous post about the big guy beating up the little guy. I understand you position now. With all the crap that you guys probably deal with daily, scammers surely reak havok on your business. I stand more informed and appreciate the time you spent to educate me.
Thanks

[JackOfSpeed]

bttt - interesting thread i saw while browsing old posts

[actyper]

Why bump it?