Enough to continue in stud/8?

[bholdr]

My little downswing appears to be over (knock on wood) and i'm back playing where i like to... 3/6 and 5/10.

Here's an intresting situation that came up today (3/6- from memory- i forget the specifics):

I have something like [Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif]3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif on fourth, and am HU against [xx xx]K/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

If the KK raised third and bet out on fourth, do i have enough to continue? enough to raise? would holding the A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif instead of the 2, 3, or 6 make a difference? if it's multiway, i will almost always keep playing... so... three to a low and four to a flush on fourth vs a paired doorcard in stud/8... good/no good?

[mscags]

This is probably way off, but I would think that you have enough to call. If I blank off on fifth I *might* consider folding. Since I'm me though, I probably see this through unless I get some indication that he has filled up. I don't thin haveing tha ace matter at all.

[kyleb]

Raising on the cheap street (4th) will tell you where he's at. If he has trip kings, he'll reraise, and if not, he'll just call (two pair or worse). If you caught him without a hand, he'll slow down, but if he reraises and you catch bad on fifth, you have to think about giving it up real quick.

[Alchemist]

I'd take another card off. Unless he was in steal position, I think it's safe to say he's got a a big two pair or trip Kings. It probably doesn't matter which since you'll need to hit your flush to win high.

I don't think holding the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif makes much difference aside from slighty reducing the chance he's got Aces in the hole.

If you catch an offsuit A,4,5,7,8 on 5th you're going to the river, but showing three to a low on 5th might slow him down anyway.

[kschellenger]

call and fold if you brick 5th.
Having the ace doesn't make much difference IMO because he probably has better than a pair of kings.

[Alchemist]

FWIW I ran a few quick sims:

Your equity (Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif) vs. the following hands:

XX K /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif------0.4265
A /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif------0.4843
K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif:K /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif------0.3790

[bholdr]

Alchemist's sims shed a lot of light on the situation- and show that, though behind, one would almost always have enough equity to see fifth, at the very least. being an aggressive player, i liked the advice that advocated raising for information.

however, i think a call is the right play in this particular situation- if i had a concealed ace instead of one of the babies, i think that a raise would definitly be in order...

thoughts?

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
Alchemist's sims shed a lot of light on the situation- and show that, though behind, one would almost always have enough equity to see fifth, at the very least. being an aggressive player, i liked the advice that advocated raising for information.

however, i think a call is the right play in this particular situation- if i had a concealed ace instead of one of the babies, i think that a raise would definitly be in order...

thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was surprised to see how improved your had was vs. AAKK so maybe there is merit to raising. But if you are against KKK it doesn't help much to hold the Ace.

Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 0.426
XX K /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif

Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 0.434
XX K /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif
----------------------
Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 0.492
A /images/graemlins/club.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 0.534
A /images/graemlins/club.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif
-------------------
Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 0.536
Q /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 0.574
Q /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Andy B]

Yeah, I think you have about enough to take one off here. I can't see any reason to raise. The other guy isn't folding, is he?

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I think you have about enough to take one off here. I can't see any reason to raise. The other guy isn't folding, is he?

[/ QUOTE ]

i would consider raising fourth for a free card on fifth, if i thought the player was dumb enough to check trips after getting raised on fourth. that's the only one i can think of... i suppose one could get some good info from a raise, too; If he calls and bets out again on fifth (or reraises), it's an easy fold if i cath a brick.

[bigredlemon]

[ QUOTE ]
My little downswing appears to be over (knock on wood)

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually same here. I wonder if our downswing was caused more by the lack of fish and being raked to death than just bad luck... though i suspect its a combo of the two

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually same here. I wonder if our downswing was caused more by the lack of fish and being raked to death than just bad luck... though i suspect its a combo of the two

[/ QUOTE ]

don't forget poor play and tilt! (in my case at least)

[Andy B]

Well, the info you might gain if you raise fourth is that the other guy has trips, which you suspect anyway, and I don't think that that information is worth the two small bets it will cost you when he three-bets you. Maybe you can get a free card some of the time, but I think that the more you want a free card, the less likely you are to get one. If he has three Kings or even two pair and you catch an off-suit Nine on fifth street, he's going to bet into you if he has anything resembling a clue.