Pocket 5's Just a good hand

[Havok]

Late in a AP $6 SNG (3 players left)

BB 1000

SB Villian (2,900)
B Hero (4,600)
BB (3,600)

Villian has been very aggressive three handed and has raised all in when I flat called on the button before.

Hero is dealt 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero calls 1,000 to trap villian

Villian reraises all in. Pot is now 4,900

BB folds. Hero calls

Villian shows A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Flop: 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Turn: 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

River: 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Hero wins with Quad Fives.

I then went on to win, just wanted to share. I just love quads.

[yid3655]

Push this every time, have no idea what you mean about trapping with 55 with blinds so high

[mlagoo]

Trapping with 55 is pretty close to godawful.

[DCIAce]

You played the hand horribly, then won a coinflip.. why the brag post? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[BigHobo]

[ QUOTE ]
Trapping with 55 is pretty close to godawful.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said.

[Havok]

Sorry, I should have given more info. Villian has been very aggressive and gone all in with very marginal hands where I called before. I figured I was a favorite to take all of his chips if I just flat called. I figured he would make a move with anything. He woke up with Ace Queen, and I did get lucky. Mostly everyone is right, I should have just pushed pre-flop. But, the guy was pushing with 9/3 offsuit, and got lucky to knock out another player. Hope you guys don't berate me too much.

You have to understand the importance of a push here. The majority of hands are about a coin flip to you, and many of them will incorrectly fold to your push.

[KramerTM]

Why are we trapping Villain with a hand that any 2 plays well against? I don't like it.

[Havok]

Well, I did want some comments and everyone has spoken. Trapping with pocket 5's bad. I figured I was at leat a slight favorite against ace high, and wanted to get called. But, I know it could have gone the other way too. The way I look at it. Is this is any different than playing pocket kings. If an ace flops, I'm done too. As a matter of fact, the last few times I've had kings they were very unlucky for me against ace high. But, I went in with the best hand here. Although technically I would have loved to see that flop first.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I did want some comments and everyone has spoken. Trapping with pocket 5's bad. I figured I was at leat a slight favorite against ace high, and wanted to get called. But, I know it could have gone the other way too. The way I look at it. Is this is any different than playing pocket kings. If an ace flops, I'm done too. As a matter of fact, the last few times I've had kings they were very unlucky for me against ace high. But, I went in with the best hand here. Although technically I would have loved to see that flop first.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many overs do pocket Kings have? Now how many do pocket 5s have? Subtract the second number from the first number. If that number is more than 3 or so, it's too high.

To turn the tables, would you ever trap with 22? Of course not.

FWIW, if I knew my opponent had Q3o here, I'd prefer a fold from him to a call of my push. Does that help clear things up?

[Havok]

Okay then lets switch things around again for sake of argument. I push, small blind is surely going to call anyways with ace/queen and it's a race. Or I wasn't thinking about trapping and raise a good amount PF. Blinds are 1000, I raise 3,000 leaving me with 1,600 in chips and I've got a pocket pair 3 handed. Do you say I should have just folded. I think no matter how the hand developed I'm getting my money in here. But, I agree, most of the time just push pre flop. So there is no argument there. If that's the case, then what's your point?

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay then lets switch things around again for sake of argument. I push, small blind is surely going to call anyways with ace/queen and it's a race. Or I wasn't thinking about trapping and raise a good amount PF. Blinds are 1000, I raise 3,000 leaving me with 1,600 in chips and I've got a pocket pair 3 handed. Do you say I should have just folded. I think no matter how the hand developed I'm getting my money in here. But, I agree, most of the time just push pre flop. So there is no argument there. If that's the case, then what's your point?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was replying to your notion about it being similar to trapping with KK and illustratring why it wasn't.

The thing to understand here, is not "I would have gotten all my money in either way," it's to recognize the different effect pushing all your money has vs. calling off all your money with this hand. Remember, when you call an all-in, you can only win by having the better hand at the end. When you push all in, you have more ways to win than that.

[Havok]

I agree about the kings vs pocket 5,s and understand your point about only one over with king's vs AK. Just, my point of bringing a big pocket pair vs overcard hand should have been better illustrated with lets say AK vs Queens, or Ace Queen vs. Jacks. Because its the same odds for those in relation to my fives. My only point prior is it only takes one ace on the board to ruin all good pocket pairs. Except of course my favorite.... Aces vs Ace King.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
Trapping with 55 is pretty close to godawful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree about the kings vs pocket 5,s and understand your point about only one over with king's vs AK. Just, my point of bringing a big pocket pair vs overcard hand should have been better illustrated with lets say AK vs Queens, or Ace Queen vs. Jacks. Because its the same odds for those in relation to my fives. My only point prior is it only takes one ace on the board to ruin all good pocket pairs. Except of course my favorite.... Aces vs Ace King.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to push preflop because opponent will fold a large number of hands that are 50% against you. When he folds these, you make money.

[AliasMrJones]

Worst...trap...ever.

With BB at 1,000 or even 500, you shouldn't be limping in AT ALL. The previous limp where he came over the top was horrible and this limp/call was just terrible.

[Havok]

I completely agree Noah. I was just in the mood to gamble, and have seen SB make this all in with such garbage hands I took a chance he might have had something like 4/3 or something. Check my other replies. In either case he woke up with a good hand, and I got lucky. But, wouldn't you have callled his all in in that spot given his aggressive table image?

[Havok]

Okay, I've gotten a lot of replies to this that tells me once again. Limping with 5's is bad! push PF. But, even the calling is bad? Alright you 2+2 ers have spoken. It won't happen again. Happy? Now stop picking on me.

Well, I would've pushed, but I think you get that. Given that I called, or if I was BB, this is a call with any two situation because you're ITM and are getting better than 2-1.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I've gotten a lot of replies to this that tells me once again. Limping with 5's is bad! push PF. But, even the calling is bad? Alright you 2+2 ers have spoken. It won't happen again. Happy? Now stop picking on me.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're not picking, we're trying to help. A key concept in STT"s is push or fold time. When you have less than 10xBB (and here you have about 5xBB) you have to start thinking push or fold. You don't have enough chips to be making plays and the blinds are worth enough to you that pushing and getting a fold without having to win a showdown is a good thing. This concept is absolutely essential to good STT play.

[Ixnert]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I should have given more info. Villian has been very aggressive and gone all in with very marginal hands where I called before. I figured I was a favorite to take all of his chips if I just flat called. I figured he would make a move with anything. He woke up with Ace Queen, and I did get lucky. Mostly everyone is right, I should have just pushed pre-flop. But, the guy was pushing with 9/3 offsuit, and got lucky to knock out another player. Hope you guys don't berate me too much.

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be, but your fives are a coinflip to, say, T6o and most of the rest of the hands your opponent might have. Save the trapping for, like, jacks, where you're probably, you know, actually ahead.

[Hornacek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Trapping with 55 is pretty close to godawful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
That may be, but your fives are a coinflip to, say, T6o and most of the rest of the hands your opponent might have. Save the trapping for, like, jacks, where you're probably, you know, actually ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mean to be a nit, but 55 is, like, ahead of T6o. Maybe not by much, but it is like a 54-46 favorite. 55 is a slight favorite over AKs as well. Against villain's probable range I think he is ahead with 55 more than half the time. The point, though, is he picks up so much more equity by pushing because of the probability that villain may fold hands that we are only slightly ahead of and we pick up 1,500 chips when he does.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That may be, but your fives are a coinflip to, say, T6o and most of the rest of the hands your opponent might have. Save the trapping for, like, jacks, where you're probably, you know, actually ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mean to be a nit, but 55 is, like, ahead of T6o. Maybe not by much, but it is like a 54-46 favorite. 55 is a slight favorite over AKs as well. Against villain's probable range I think he is ahead with 55 more than half the time. The point, though, is he picks up so much more equity by pushing because of the probability that villain may fold hands that we are only slightly ahead of and we pick up 1,500 chips when he does.

[/ QUOTE ]

55/45 situations fall within the realm of coinflips for the purposes of our discussion. Hero picked up on the point though. That trapping with 55 is horrible.