Tentative Build Specs - Critque

[MarkD]

All prices are in Canadian and this site does do price match so I will get them slightly cheaper (priced it out earlier about $100 less).

AMD X2 4200+ - $599 (http://dangeo.com/proddetail.php?sku=51758)
I want a dual core processor if I am going to build a new system and I understand that AMD's are more stable than Intel. I am also willing to go down to a X2 3800+ for $460

DFI Lanparty - $178 (http://dangeo.com/proddetail.php?sku=51293)
or
Asus A8N-E - $144 (http://dangeo.com/proddetail.php?sku=51469)
I'm open to suggestions here for motherboards. I think that if I am going AMD for a processor I want an NF4 chipset though, but other than that I don't think I need many extra options.

Seagate 160GB SATA - $120 (http://dangeo.com/proddetail.php?sku=50502)
I have debated buying a raptor for my OS and applications and using this drive just for data but atm I'm not sure. The raptor seems like a lot of money.

Corsair Value Select Twin-X 1GB - $140 (http://dangeo.com/proddetail.php?sku=50594)

Also, a DVD writer and Antec Sonata 2 case (I want it to be quiet).

I currently have a ATI PCI video card with one DVI output and one VGA. I have a 2001FP. I think that I am looking for another 2001FP and a dual DVI video card but I can't find a dual DVI video card at this site (or in canada in my limited research). I don't really care about playing games but at the same time I don't know if I want to limit myself. What are the current recommended dual dvi video cards?

[MyMindIsGoing]

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I understand that AMD's are more stable than Intel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong.

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I am also willing to go down to a X2 3800+ for $460

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Good, paying 30% extra for a cpu that is not even 10% faster is bad. You will hardly ever notice it.

[MarkD]

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I understand that AMD's are more stable than Intel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong.

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I am also willing to go down to a X2 3800+ for $460

[/ QUOTE ]

Good, paying 30% extra for a cpu that is not even 10% faster is bad. You will hardly ever notice it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I figured that the 3800 was a better deal and I meant that I hear the AMD dual cores are more stable than the Intel counterparts. This was what all the review sites were saying a month or two ago.

Is dual core worth the couple of hundred extra I will spend over a single core?

[MyMindIsGoing]

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Is dual core worth the couple of hundred extra I will spend over a single core?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on how much use you got of it. If you are gonna run alot of programs that eats cpu time simlultaniously I would go for dual core. They are not very expencive (atleast not the ones I looked at).

Go with the AMD 3800 with the Asus board. I am a fan of Crucial memory myself but Corair is fine. I always look to purchase AMD over Intel just because I have always had better luck with AMD systems. As for going ahead and getting the dual core over a single core, you might as well go ahead and make the investment now.

[edtost]

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Is dual core worth the couple of hundred extra I will spend over a single core?

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Depends on how much use you got of it. If you are gonna run alot of programs that eats cpu time simlultaniously I would go for dual core. They are not very expencive (atleast not the ones I looked at).

[/ QUOTE ]

how does dual core compare to running multiplpe processors?

[MrMoo]

What else are you going to do with this computer that requires this much power?

[LethalRose]

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Is dual core worth the couple of hundred extra I will spend over a single core?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on how much use you got of it. If you are gonna run alot of programs that eats cpu time simlultaniously I would go for dual core. They are not very expencive (atleast not the ones I looked at).

[/ QUOTE ]

how does dual core compare to running multiplpe processors?

[/ QUOTE ]

Being a CET major I find it funny we were just discussing this in class.


Running multiple physical processors requires special software to take advantage of the 2 processors.

Dual core technology is basically the same as hyper threading. However in hyper threading the cache is shared. Hyper threading can execute 2 threads at a time however sharing a cache causes collisions which cause the cores to wait on eachother.

With dual core, each core has it own cache. The dual-cores run threaded applications faster than single-core or HT microprocessors.

[Neuge]

[ QUOTE ]
Running multiple physical processors requires special software to take advantage of the 2 processors.

[/ QUOTE ]Sorta. Most software requires extensive restructuring to parallelize it to run on multiple or multicore processors. The software limitations are the same.

A properly designed OS has no trouble ditinguishing between running a single thread process on one processor or on one core of a multicore processor.

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
Running multiple physical processors requires special software to take advantage of the 2 processors.

Dual core technology is basically the same as hyper threading. However in hyper threading the cache is shared. Hyper threading can execute 2 threads at a time however sharing a cache causes collisions which cause the cores to wait on eachother.

With dual core, each core has it own cache. The dual-cores run threaded applications faster than single-core or HT microprocessors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite right, on a dual core system you can run two single threaded aplications independat of each other at the same time. And what you call special software is just realy threaded software (and especially those with several "active" threads).

A person getting dual cores for doing some webbrowsing and stuff wont notice much, but if you run quad tables of poker and got poker tracker and several GT+ (or similar) there should be great difference.

[MarkD]

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What else are you going to do with this computer that requires this much power?

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Not a lot I suppose, but I figure that if I am going to build a new system than I might as well go dual core. Everything I do is multi-tasking and although none of it is that intensive (usually - sometimes it is) I think it makes sense to go dual core at this point.

[MarkD]

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[ QUOTE ]
Running multiple physical processors requires special software to take advantage of the 2 processors.

Dual core technology is basically the same as hyper threading. However in hyper threading the cache is shared. Hyper threading can execute 2 threads at a time however sharing a cache causes collisions which cause the cores to wait on eachother.

With dual core, each core has it own cache. The dual-cores run threaded applications faster than single-core or HT microprocessors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite right, on a dual core system you can run two single threaded aplications independat of each other at the same time. And what you call special software is just realy threaded software (and especially those with several "active" threads).

A person getting dual cores for doing some webbrowsing and stuff wont notice much, but if you run quad tables of poker and got poker tracker and several GT+ (or similar) there should be great difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Add in a very large pokerstove simulation (defending the small blind against a 40% stealer with 76s by calling instead of 3-betting, for example) and I think dual core will be a good investment for me.

MyMindIsGoing - does it make sense to have two hard drives? One for my OS and applications and another for my data? I see people on here recommend the raptor for O/S and applications as an example.

[MrMoo]

Well, it's up to you. You know your situation better than I do. But in my opinion, your spending a lot of money on horsepower you don't need. If you're just going to be playing poker and playing on the internet, you could spend about half what your planning on and still have a comparably fast system.

[IHateKeithSmart]

RE: the hard drives, are you wanting performance enhancement or reliability? (or both)

I don't have a sata box yet, but I have mirrored all my desktop hard drives for the last 5 years. Yes it is at least twice as expensive, but I have lost enough hard drives to make it worth it in piece of mind.

[MyMindIsGoing]

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MyMindIsGoing - does it make sense to have two hard drives? One for my OS and applications and another for my data? I see people on here recommend the raptor for O/S and applications as an example.

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Yes it does, espessialy (yes my spelling sux) if you stripe (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/optimsql/odp_tun_1_0m5g.asp) them. I would not buy the raptor, I do not trust the quality and it makes to much noise for me.

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, it's up to you. You know your situation better than I do. But in my opinion, your spending a lot of money on horsepower you don't need. If you're just going to be playing poker and playing on the internet, you could spend about half what your planning on and still have a comparably fast system.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where exactly am I wasting the money in your opinion? What components?

[MarkD]

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MyMindIsGoing - does it make sense to have two hard drives? One for my OS and applications and another for my data? I see people on here recommend the raptor for O/S and applications as an example.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it does, espessialy (yes my spelling sux) if you stripe (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/optimsql/odp_tun_1_0m5g.asp) them. I would not buy the raptor, I do not trust the quality and it makes to much noise for me.

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I've considered going raid - but more so in a mirrored sense for reliability of data rather than performance. Does Raid 0 add a large amount of performance?

Edit: I've wondered about those aspects of the raptor - and it seems too expensive to me.

[MrMoo]

Mobo and CPU. You could save quite a bit of money and get a nearly comparable system by buying some used hardware off ebay. Again it's up to you. You know your finances, I don't. It just kills me to see people on here by the latest and greatest hardware for playing poker.

[Neuge]

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I currently have a ATI PCI video card with one DVI output and one VGA. I have a 2001FP. I think that I am looking for another 2001FP and a dual DVI video card but I can't find a dual DVI video card at this site (or in canada in my limited research). I don't really care about playing games but at the same time I don't know if I want to limit myself. What are the current recommended dual dvi video cards?

[/ QUOTE ]If you want a great video card, I'd suggest this deal since you're buying a new mobo anyway.

http://www.evga.com/articles/public.asp?AID=258

The manufacturer is currently out of stock, but click the off-site retailers at the bottom of the page still have them in.

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
Mobo and CPU. You could save quite a bit of money and get a nearly comparable system by buying some used hardware off ebay. Again it's up to you. You know your finances, I don't. It just kills me to see people on here by the latest and greatest hardware for playing poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, well, I've never bought off of Ebay before and I wouldn't want to buy used computer parts.

I am open to suggestions for changes for new purchases but I will be buying new purchases. If you have other recommendations for CPU's and mobo's I am ready to listen (especially with regards to mobo's).

For reference, my current computer is an Athalon 800. I've owned it for at least 6 years. It pretty much does what I want it to, but I am ready for an upgrade. My next computer will probably be around 6 years from now and that's why I am looking at dual core. Although it might be that popular today it certainly will be the most popular solution in 6 months or a year and software will be written to take advantage of this. Also, as has been mentioned in this thread, current application can already be improved by dual core.

Right now I put up with doing things really slow because I'm used to it and I don't want to buy the latest and greatest and best of everything but I feel like this machine may be a good compromise for me.

I'm totally willing to listen to suggestions for any components.

I'm also still looking for suggestions for dual dvi video cards. Performance is not critical here - price is important. My current video card is PCI with a DVI and a PCI (it's an ATI card about a year old).

[MarkD]

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[ QUOTE ]
I currently have a ATI PCI video card with one DVI output and one VGA. I have a 2001FP. I think that I am looking for another 2001FP and a dual DVI video card but I can't find a dual DVI video card at this site (or in canada in my limited research). I don't really care about playing games but at the same time I don't know if I want to limit myself. What are the current recommended dual dvi video cards?

[/ QUOTE ]If you want a great video card, I'd suggest this deal since you're buying a new mobo anyway.

http://www.evga.com/articles/public.asp?AID=258

The manufacturer is currently out of stock, but click the off-site retailers at the bottom of the page still have them in.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way, that's way too much card for me (and mobo too - I don't need SLI). I'm not going to be playing Doom 3 or Quake 3 or whatever the latest game is.

[icepick]

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The raptor seems like a lot of money.

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I /images/graemlins/heart.gif my Raptors.

[LethalRose]

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Running multiple physical processors requires special software to take advantage of the 2 processors.

Dual core technology is basically the same as hyper threading. However in hyper threading the cache is shared. Hyper threading can execute 2 threads at a time however sharing a cache causes collisions which cause the cores to wait on eachother.

With dual core, each core has it own cache. The dual-cores run threaded applications faster than single-core or HT microprocessors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite right, on a dual core system you can run two single threaded aplications independat of each other at the same time. And what you call special software is just realy threaded software (and especially those with several "active" threads).

A person getting dual cores for doing some webbrowsing and stuff wont notice much, but if you run quad tables of poker and got poker tracker and several GT+ (or similar) there should be great difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which party of my post are you disagreeing with? you said the same thing just a little differently. by special software I was refering to SMP.

[MyMindIsGoing]

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Which party of my post are you disagreeing with? you said the same thing just a little differently. by special software I was refering to SMP.

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This: "Dual core technology is basically the same as hyper threading."

They are way diffrent. HT = dependant of each other, dual=indipendant.

They special software for smp is not quite right either. If you only use one program and it only has one "active" (doing most of the work) then yes SMP wont do much. But if you run two of those they will run on one cpu each and more things would be done at the same time. That is why SMP and dual core will improve speed even if the prorams wont support it (or should I say badly written). That is what I meant.

[DeuceKicker]

I don't think I'd got the eBay route, either.

I can't recommend a dual core chip for you (I was planning on a 3000+, but since I only upgrade every few years myself, you're convincing me that dual core might be the way to go) . However, as others have said, buying the absolute latest CPU seldom makes sense. You can take one or two steps down, save a nice chunk of money, and see very little loss of performance.

I definitely think you're overpaying for the mobo. DFI is known as an overclocker's mobo, with lots of bells and whistles if you like to tweak voltage and experiment with cold fusion. Check out the Anandtech (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=29&threadid=1639727&enterth read=y)
forums for a guide to motherboards. If you're not looking for a bunch of fancy schmancy features, you can get one for about 40% less than the LANParty.

As for the video card: If "performance is not critical" and you already have a dual-monitor card, why not stay with it? DVI cuts out the step of changing the video signal between digital and analog, but 2001FPs will plug into a VGA slot, and I doubt you'd ever notice the difference.

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
I definitely think you're overpaying for the mobo. DFI is known as an overclocker's mobo, with lots of bells and whistles if you like to tweak voltage and experiment with cold fusion. Check out the Anandtech
forums for a guide to motherboards. If you're not looking for a bunch of fancy schmancy features, you can get one for about 40% less than the LANParty.


[/ QUOTE ]

Remember that the above is canadian pricing - not American, and it's in Canadian dollars. For reference, the NF4 DFI Lanparty board is $178 or $260 depending on if you want SLI or not. I don't care abotu overclocking much (I might do it but it's unlikely).

Someone suggest a better NF4 chipset board at a better price please, since everyone thinks the Asus board is overpriced...

[DeuceKicker]

Check out the anandtech guide. The guy who wrote it focuses on NF4 mobos for the 939 chipset, and it looks like what you're looking for (chaintech or epox?) would go for $85-90 US, so call it an even $200 Canadian /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
Check out the anandtech guide. The guy who wrote it focuses on NF4 mobos for the 939 chipset, and it looks like what you're looking for (chaintech or epox?) would go for $85-90 US, so call it an even $200 Canadian /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Although you mean that as a joke your US dollar is pretty shitty right now and is dropping daily. It's only worth like 18% more than the canadian dollar atm. This effects me negatively since all the poker sites cash me out in US dollars.

[grandgnu]

For What It's Worth:

My entire computer is built off of used components from Ebay, and I saved anywhere from $25-$125 off retail for the majority of them, and have had no problem:

MSI 875P Neo2-FISR Motherboard
P4 2.6C Northwood Intel Processor w/800mhz FSB
1GB (2x512mb) Dual-Channel Kingston HyperX PC4000
Seagate 120GB 8mb cache IDE Drive
Seagate 200GB 8mb cache IDE Drive
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum Sound
Radeon All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro 128MB Grahpics

This puppy was top of the line a few years ago, now it's more middle of the road (I do a lot of computer gaming, plus some video editing/capturing and poker)

I was able to overclock my 2.6 processor to run at 3.2Ghz with a 1:1 ratio on the processor and RAM.

Your proposed system does sound like overkill for your uses. And you can find some great deals on Ebay, if you know what you're looking for. Just make sure the seller is reputable, you'll save a bundle o' cash.

While I've heard that AMD processors (the newer batch) kicks Intels butt, as far as power consumption and heat displacement goes, I believe Intel is generally regarded as a better processor for "office" type work, while AMD rules the gaming world (which is why I plan to go AMD next time)