PDA

View Full Version : Making Moves in Level 3


08-30-2005, 01:36 PM
Standard formula: play super tight until Level 4. Standard result? Getting into Level 4 6or7xBB.

What about making occasional moves in Level 3? You have t75 in blinds to grab now, and at the $11 level it seems like lots of people STILL limp in. Here's an example of a move I have started making recently that seems to be working pretty well.

Table Table 35306 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Lucra (410)
Seat 2: WmRTheRake (405)
Seat 3: uclabruinz (680)
Seat 4: LordNuts (560)
Seat 5: bigjim7 (380)
Seat 6: bombsquad3 (1000)
Seat 7: chad2c00l (1310)
Seat 8: acesYoel (715)
Seat 9: martypowers6 (695)
Seat 10: ihave21 (1845)
LordNuts posts small blind (25)
bigjim7 posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to uclabruinz [ Qc, Ac ]
bombsquad3 calls (50)
2 folds.
martypowers6 calls (50)
3 folds.
uclabruinz raises (680) to 680
uclabruinz is all-In.
LordNuts folds.
bigjim7 folds.
bombsquad3 folds.
martypowers6 folds.
Creating Main Pot with $855 with uclabruinz

Thoughts?

Messy Harry
08-30-2005, 01:39 PM
Is it necessary to throw your whole stack in here?

08-30-2005, 01:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Is it necessary to throw your whole stack in here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I think it is. I don't want to bump it to 200, be left with 480, and have to deal with a limper calling and playing a flop that is going to miss me 2/3 of the time. I'd rather stick it all in there knowing I'm almost always ahead unless one of the limpers calls with a 22-JJ.

Am I off here?

Freudian
08-30-2005, 01:43 PM
I do this all the time. There is 175 chips in the middle and you have a stack of 680. And if called AQ isn't too shabby.

bennies
08-30-2005, 01:44 PM
standard.
now do this with any two and we are talking MOVE. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

45suited
08-30-2005, 01:46 PM
With your stack, I do this here instantly, every time.

08-30-2005, 01:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
standard.
now do this with any two and we are talking MOVE. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't bring myself to make those kind of MOVES at the $11s where it's so likely I'll get called. I look forward to making them when I eventually move up though. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

bluefeet
08-30-2005, 01:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Am I off here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally speaking, no - IMO. When a standard raise, in suspect position, leaves you <10BB's...pushing can be the right thing to do.

The number of players behind you, relative stack sizes (of the limpers, and those behind you), reads, etc. can certainly make the standard raise an equally effective, and perhaps better option.

Your position alone here, might have made the standard raise a little more appropriate - but I don't hate the push.

Messy Harry
08-30-2005, 01:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is it necessary to throw your whole stack in here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I think it is. I don't want to bump it to 200, be left with 480, and have to deal with a limper calling and playing a flop that is going to miss me 2/3 of the time. I'd rather stick it all in there knowing I'm almost always ahead unless one of the limpers calls with a 22-JJ.

Am I off here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand your point, but I think this is a move that may lose its appeal after you get busted out with it several times.

It's great if you could be guaranteed that only donks with w/ Ax would call. But I'll bet you might get called alot at that level with pocket pairs and then be in a coinflip situation, which is something I would like to avoid early on. I would rather try and play poker...which I still need work on /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I just know when I have gotten my $ in on a coinflip early on when I didn't have to, I've often regretted it and asked myself why was I so impatient?

bennies
08-30-2005, 01:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
standard.
now do this with any two and we are talking MOVE. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't bring myself to make those kind of MOVES at the $11s where it's so likely I'll get called. I look forward to making them when I eventually move up though. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, with any two I am not making them either (at the 22s), except against compulsary limpers /images/graemlins/smile.gif

45suited
08-30-2005, 01:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I understand your point, but I think this is a move that may lose its appeal after you get busted out with it several times.

[/ QUOTE ]

He'll get over it when he sees all the times that he picks up t175 uncontested. Also, getting called by JJ or worse isn't the worst result in the world either. Pushing here is big time +EV. You also have to consider all the times that he gets low to mid PPs to fold by pushing here, rather than raising a significant portion of his stack and then playing on a whiffed flop with a stack that is not big enough to allow for any play.

08-30-2005, 01:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I understand your point, but I think this is a move that may lose its appeal after you get busted out with it several times.

It's great if you could be guaranteed that only donks with w/ Ax would call. But I'll bet you might get called alot at that level with pocket pairs and then be in a coinflip situation, which is something I would like to avoid early on. I would rather try and play poker...which I still need work on /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I just know when I have gotten my $ in on a coinflip early on when I didn't have to, I've often regretted it and asked myself why was I so impatient?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you need to use ALL your fold equity with these moves. FE plus times you get called and are ahead or pull one out of your ass equals +++EV over the times you get called and lose a coin flip or to someone pulling one out of their ass.

schwza
08-30-2005, 01:54 PM
yeah, this is a standard push. too much money out there to let it sit.

08-30-2005, 01:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
He'll get over it when he sees all the times that he picks up t175 uncontested. Also, getting called by JJ or worse isn't the worst result in the world either. Pushing here is big time +EV. You also have to consider all the times that he gets low to mid PPs to fold by pushing here, rather than raising a significant portion of his stack and then playing on a whiffed flop with a stack that is not big enough to allow for any play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, getting called and winning a coin flip sends me into Level 4 with about t1500. Yummy.

Messy Harry
08-30-2005, 01:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand your point, but I think this is a move that may lose its appeal after you get busted out with it several times.

It's great if you could be guaranteed that only donks with w/ Ax would call. But I'll bet you might get called alot at that level with pocket pairs and then be in a coinflip situation, which is something I would like to avoid early on. I would rather try and play poker...which I still need work on /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I just know when I have gotten my $ in on a coinflip early on when I didn't have to, I've often regretted it and asked myself why was I so impatient?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you need to use ALL your fold equity with these moves. FE plus times you get called and are ahead or pull one out of your ass equals +++EV over the times you get called and lose a coin flip or to someone pulling one out of their ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

I respect this point and I seem to be in the minority here. What range of hands would you make this move with?

08-30-2005, 02:03 PM
I just did this with QJs after three chronic limpers with blinds 25/50 at stars. It's the worst hand I've done it with, but I was thinking about the hands that are likely limp/calling me here and I decided that they were mainly pocket pairs 22-77, so the play seemed good to me. Dumb/smart/standard? I think I had about 12x BB and was the shortie at the table, which is around the highest I'd think of doing this.

Isura
08-30-2005, 02:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty standard for me. You need chips, and there's 175 sitting around waiting for you.

raptor517
08-30-2005, 02:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I just did this with QJs after three chronic limpers with blinds 25/50 at stars. It's the worst hand I've done it with, but I was thinking about the hands that are likely limp/calling me here and I decided that they were mainly pocket pairs 22-77, so the play seemed good to me. Dumb/smart/standard? I think I had about 12x BB and was the shortie at the table, which is around the highest I'd think of doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

i did it with 23o once. did i mention i like this move? (ok i was in the bb and like 7 people limped and i had 800, i said what the hell) holla

raptor517
08-30-2005, 02:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
standard.
now do this with any two and we are talking MOVE. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't bring myself to make those kind of MOVES at the $11s where it's so likely I'll get called. I look forward to making them when I eventually move up though. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

where you might get called? who cares. even if it is a coinflip you have PLENTY of equity from the dead chips. you also forget to realize that you will be called by a WORSE hand quite frequently too. its really nice when AJ thinks hes making a wonderful call on yer steal and u have him pwnd. holla

08-30-2005, 02:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I respect this point and I seem to be in the minority here. What range of hands would you make this move with?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would feel very nervous making this move with anything other than 99+ or AQ+ at the $11s. But I'm interested in hearing a range from those who have said this is part of their standard repertoire.

08-30-2005, 02:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
where you might get called? who cares. even if it is a coinflip you have PLENTY of equity from the dead chips. you also forget to realize that you will be called by a WORSE hand quite frequently too. its really nice when AJ thinks hes making a wonderful call on yer steal and u have him pwnd. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are confused. I would and do make this move with AQo without fear of getting called. But, at the $11s, I would fear making this move with any two cards because of the likelihood of AJo and such calling.

What range would you make this move with?

se2schul
08-30-2005, 03:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I respect this point and I seem to be in the minority here. What range of hands would you make this move with?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would feel very nervous making this move with anything other than 99+ or AQ+ at the $11s. But I'm interested in hearing a range from those who have said this is part of their standard repertoire.

[/ QUOTE ]

Standard. I play the 33s and I make it with much worse cards than AQ. It becomes an even more attractive move for me when I only have T600.

08-30-2005, 03:14 PM
At this point my opinion is somewhat redundant, but I like this move at the 11s and happily make it when the situation presents itself. However, to answer your question, I think I'm a little tighter that others. I mostly 8-table in sets so I rarely have a good read at level 3. Because of this, I have a hard time pushing with any two. My range is somewhere around 88+, AJ+, KQs.

raptor517
08-30-2005, 04:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
where you might get called? who cares. even if it is a coinflip you have PLENTY of equity from the dead chips. you also forget to realize that you will be called by a WORSE hand quite frequently too. its really nice when AJ thinks hes making a wonderful call on yer steal and u have him pwnd. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are confused. I would and do make this move with AQo without fear of getting called. But, at the $11s, I would fear making this move with any two cards because of the likelihood of AJo and such calling.

What range would you make this move with?

[/ QUOTE ]\

everything depends of course. i have played maybe 100 11s in my life so i have no idea. ill do it with far more hands than i should probably, but it works out quite well. you do see some donkass calls with like 77 at times, but most people dont wanna race that early when they have a limping hand, so its free chippers. holla

samr
08-30-2005, 05:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
standard.
now do this with any two and we are talking MOVE. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

He nailed it.

-Skeme-
08-30-2005, 05:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
With your stack, I do this here instantly, every time.

[/ QUOTE ]