Not another cry-baby....

Here it is folks... yet another bad beat story... I'm not complaining, just looking for advice.

$300 - $500 restricted buy-in NL ring game. Loose game, standard bring in bet is about $20... $5 & $5 blinds at the Bike. The small blind is a loose player that makes it $20 everytime there is multiple limpers like clock work. To my left is an ultra dumb calling station (As already called off $1,000 with top and middle pair).

Hero- Limp with A :spade: A :diamond:

Four Limpers, Small blind makes it $20 (like clock work)

Hero- Limp re-raises to $85; calling station and small blind call.

Flop: K :club: 7 :club: 5 :diamond:

Hero bets $120... call; call

Turn: 10 :heart:

Small blind folds out of turn, Hero bets $140, calling station calls (at this point I put him on K-rag, maybe a club draw).

River: 3 :diamond:

Hero checks to the calling station hoping he missed his draw and goes all in. Calling station goes all in for an additional $170.00

Hero calls... Calling station show 4 6 OFFSUITE for the nuts straight.

Any suggestions? I know this is just "another bad beat" story... but I don't see how I can get away from this hand against a calling station. Against any descent player I would give them credit for a set... or maybe turning two pair... HELP

[soko]

fold preflop

[odellthurman]

You bet too little on the flop and turn.

[Jorge10]

You didnt raise enough preflop, I mean if it was that loose obviously 60 more meant nothing to them. Also you flop bet stunk 120 into 280? You see how little that is? Even the small blind who wasnt a calling station called you because it was so cheap. Then 140 into a close to 600 dollar pot? He had odds to call with any junk hand to try and beat you.

Normally I would have really jammed it on the flop and/or all in on the turn... but I really felt like with all these calling stations I need to "chip-away" at their stacks and not over commit.. Just in case the flush got their

I have used this strategy before against calling stations and it seem to work...

[bernie]

Calling stations generally don't go all in on the end as a bluff and they're usually very predictable.

When a callingstation bets, be wary. Especially when they bet all in. Seems like you juked yourself on this one by not giving him enough credit.

b

[illegit]

You're really wondering how you can fold to a bet by a calling station? Change calling station to 'maniac' then ask the question again and it becomes more reasonable.

[ QUOTE ]
Calling stations generally don't go all in on the end as a bluff and they're usually very predictable.

When a callingstation bets, be wary. Especially when they bet all in. Seems like you juked yourself on this one by not giving him enough credit.

b

[/ QUOTE ] That's been my experience too. They only bet with an extremely strong hand. Also, you can often tell what hand they have easier than other players, because they bet the strength of their hand. For example, if they have middle pair with a good kicker (usually an ace, or king) they might bet say half the pot. If they have top pair or over pair, they make a pot-size or larger bet. These are generalizations, precise betting patterns vary by calling-station, but they do usually fall into predictable patterns. When a calling station goes all in at any point, he's not representing the flop, he made it. Unfortunately, you were patient, picked up a monster hand and got outdrawn.
In general, the comments made about making a larger bet on the flop are right, you should have bet the size of the pot. By betting so little, you allowed not one, but two guys the chance to outdraw you (calling station and the maniac in the small blind). You want to get AA heads up. The problem is, the calling station probably would still have called and outdrawn you, however, if he missed his hand, you would have taken more of his money because he would have folded to any bet on the river had he missed. I've played with calling stations that not only call pot sized bets on the river with open-ended straight draws, but with gut-shots, a play I never make unless I'm setting up a bluff on the later streets.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]

Hero checks to the calling station hoping he missed his draw and goes all in.


[/ QUOTE ]
You kept underbetting, and then checked to a calling station with an overpair? Do you hate money?

Against a calling station, rarely bluff. Rarely slow-play or check-raise. Value bet. Value bet. Value bet.

[ChuckyB]

[ QUOTE ]
Normally I would have really jammed it on the flop and/or all in on the turn... but I really felt like with all these calling stations I need to "chip-away" at their stacks and not over commit.. Just in case the flush got their

I have used this strategy before against calling stations and it seem to work...

[/ QUOTE ]

It works...but when it goes wrong, it goes really wrong, like in this situation.
If you want to bet small, you still have to bet more than what you were betting. From my quick math it seems he was getting the proper pot odds to play his open-ended draw from the flop onward. Make him make an incorrect decision.

In HoH 1, Harrington talks about needed only about 3:1 to chase a draw like this because he knows he'll get paid off on the river.

Villain's pre-flop call was horrible. After that he appears to have played it pretty well.

Raise more pre-flop, Aces against 2 or more people aren't an overwhelming favorite like against one person.. And I'd have bet more on all streets considering the board had possibilities, no need to get fancy

[Guthrie]

Quit playing pocket aces. They obviously don't work out for you.

[hurlyburly]

That's an odd way to describe "playing scared". It's not a strategy, it's a leak.

[Jarcon]

I dont play so much NL, but I think you should have bet more at flop and go all in at turn. Or maybe all in at flop. =)

You played this like an uber-donkey. This isn't a bad beat. It's a bad play.

[DavidC]

There's a lot of things you're doing wrong in this hand. Like, A LOT.

Of all the suggestions I could give you, here's a decent one:

Play 10k hands online at the NLHE $25 tables. Use pokertracker to gather some stats during this time. Examine the stats to look for leaks in your game. During this time, read some poker books, particularly NLHE books that aren't written for tourney play. Also, read the NLHE forums.

As for the hand itself: raise preflop, if not, re-raise more preflop than you did. bet way more on the flop, and push the turn.

You gave this guy correct odds from the flop forward to chase his straight. Preflop, if both of you have big stacks, and you limp, and he has position on you, and you play post-flop poorly (which you did in this hand), then he can call you with a lot of hands.

--Dave.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling stations generally don't go all in on the end as a bluff and they're usually very predictable.

When a callingstation bets, be wary. Especially when they bet all in. Seems like you juked yourself on this one by not giving him enough credit.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I call this river every time, but I'd bet it every time first.