Creative or Dumb Play

Dumb thing I did was to post this in the wrong forum - General and bernie was nice enough not to pick on me. So, I'm posting here again:

My typical Saturday 5-10 at Taj. Table was loose/passive with 2 or 3 decent players. I have not won a hand since my first hand when I posted in CO, got raised by SB after 1 limper, and won by check-raising the PF raiser who called all the way when I flopped top two with KTs.

On this hand, loose MP raised after 2 limpers and I decided to cold-call with QTh in CO. Clear fold or marginal call?

Button and BB folded, SB re-raised, 2 limpers cold-called first raiser capped. Sh****T! I got trapped but decided to see the flop, still thinking whether it's the right thing to do. Everybody called.

Flop was 7 5 T rainbow with 1 heart. Now, I had top pair and a backdoor flush draw. SB bets out, folded to capper who just called. What to do? What to do? My first instinct was to fold but thought about the players involved: SB is a decent regular but have passive tendencies having just called all the way with his PF raise with AA in my initial winning hand and I thought: Is this deja vu all over again except I know I am beat this time and the pot was quite enticing but with a 3rd player. MP capper whom I've never played before is quite aggressive PF but passive post-flop. I thought this is a fold or raise situation and I raised! Both called. Whaddya think?

Turn was a blank. Both checked! Ah, my free card, and I checked.

River was my miracle T!!

SB led out, MP called and I raised. Both called. My hand was good. SB showed his AA and MP threw his QQ face up mumbling about my flop raise.

Please comment on all streets as I'm still unsure of my cold-calling standards especially in a capped pot. /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Homer]

Repost of my answer on General board:

Preflop: I think coldcalling here is pretty bad, but not horrible. You'll have position with big suited cards in a multiway pot. I would still fold, though.

Flop: Why is this a raise or fold situation? I think calling is the best play unless BB AND MP are super passive, and won't three-bet the flop even with an overpair. You likely have 6 outs, which is plenty to call a bet with, so folding is out of the question. If you raise you will likely be reraised (unless they are super passive), and will end up putting in 2 extra bets to see the turn. So, it seems that calling is the best play. If you don't catch anything on the turn you can fold to a bet.

Turn: Given that you raised the flop, you should of course take your free card on the turn when checked to.

River: Routine

Comments: I don't know what SB and MP are bitching about. They played the hand like crap. SB should have three-bet the flop and led out on the turn. MP should have raised the flop. If either of these things happen you are probably gone before the river.

-- Homer

[Your Mom]

Maybe I'm dumb but I don't get it. You had 3 Tens. The other guy had 3 aces. Explain this to me please.

[Rick Diesel]

Please explain how 3 tens beats aces full.

Rick Diesel

[oddjob]

doesn't trip tens always beat aces full?

i think you guys are mistaking his... "Ah" for an Ace of hearts. i think he's just say...AHHHH.

[Homer]

It doesn't. Read the post again.

-- Homer

[Your Mom]

Oh he is saying "ah" not Ace of Hearts. I see.

[Zag]

LOL. I fell for the "Ah," too. Be careful with your onomatopoeia. (And how often do you get to use that word online?)

I don't completely hate the cold call preflop, but I don't like it much. You have position and expect it to be 4 or 5-way. But you might want to have looked, first, at the button and blinds to see if you can get a tell on them. If they look like they are going to raise, definitely stay out.

As it was, you got trapped, but once it is back to you, you have to call. If it was worth 2 bets at 4-to-1 odds, it is certainly worth 2 bets at 11-to-1. Note that if you were playing somewhere that has a 5-bet cap, you might consider folding (but I still wouldn't).

You have to raise on the flop! If you aren't going to bet your top-pair, decent kicker, you shouldn't have played QT in the first place. Admittedly, you played it partially because it was suited, but you also played it partially because Q and T are (pretty) big cards. You wouldn't have gotten here with 86s. I still wouldn't be surprised to see both opponents holding AKs.

Of course, if you are reraised, you probably want to dump. The QQ was a wimp not to, and he deserved to be sucked out on.

Check behind on the turn? Again, I don't hate it. It depends a lot on your read of the small blind. Obviously, if you're behind right now, this is a great play. If you're ahead, it's because they both have AK (or AKs) and this just might induce a bluff or a crying call on the end. Do you plan to check behind again if checked to? (I hope not.)

Of course, the response to his mumbling should have been, "Excuse me sir? I couldn't hear you over the noise of stacking all these chips."

[Bob T.]

I wouldn't have called, but because of the presence of the early position limpers, I think that you could upgrade this to marginal. After the reraise, you are just trapped, and you have to call.

Flop raise, I think that you got creative, and even better, both of your opponents got to creative, and you got your free card. What makes this play worthwhile is the nice sized pot that was built preflop, because you are going to have the odds to draw to this hand.

I think all of the people who don't three bet preflop, but try for checkraises on the turn, should think about this hand.

[elysium]

hi id
fold pre-flop. you must read hfap and top.

Thanks Oddjob. That's how dumb I am. Can't even type Ahhhh correctly. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

Ditto to Homer.

Thanks, guys for the reply. It was my initial call PF that was questionable and I thought, was marginal at best. But being trapped, had to call the capped bet consoling myself that it's multi-way. If either the top pair or the backdoor was missing on the flop, I would have been gone. As I mentioned in the original post, both players were passive enough that I knew I had more than a 50% chance I can pull off a semi-bluff raise for a free card which worked out and paid off pretty good. If either one of them re-raised, I would have folded right there.

Now, at least I know that my cold-calling standards are /forums/images/icons/blush.gif quite iffy.

Yup, I guess I have to brush up on HPFAP and TOP.

I think calling on the flop is out of the question, 'cause SB would have bet out and called by MP on the turn which would obviously be a fold for me.

[SossMan]

I think all of the people who don't three bet preflop, but try for checkraises on the turn, should think about this hand.
Great point, Bob.
-SossMan

[pudley4]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
If either one of them re-raised, I would have folded right there

[/ QUOTE ]

What I think you meant to type was "I would have called, getting 28-1." Right? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[Homer]

There's nothing wrong with taking one off on the turn with proper odds and folding to a bet if you don't catch anything. It is much more preferable than raising the flop and having to call a three-bet, imho.

-- Homer

[bernie]

where's the ace on the board. i think you misread the 'Ah' as an ace of hearts instead of the expression

b