I hope this hand can learn me important things

[aflaba]

What does hero do and why?
What is important to consider?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero ..., (Button left to act)

[Entity]

I 3-bet. I usually have the best hand and I still have a reasonable draw if I'm behind to 2pr or somesuch.

Rob

[MrBig30]

I second the 3-bet. Charge the draws and knock out the overcards. Pot is getting big, not the time to save one small bet.

[odawg09090]

3-betting to protect the pot and hopefully knock out some overs or backdoor draws.

3-bet.

[adamstewart]

I fail to see the issue here .... 3-bet.


What exactly are you so worried about SB and UTG holding? (Personally, I'm thinking pairs before monsters - but hey, that's just me).

You very likely still have the best hand here, and you've got some strong outs regardless. In other words, you've got tonnes of equity on this flop.


Adam

[aflaba]

[ QUOTE ]
I fail to see the issue here .... 3-bet.


What exactly are you so worried about SB and UTG holding? (Personally, I'm thinking pairs before monsters - but hey, that's just me).

You very likely still have the best hand here, and you've got some strong outs regardless. In other words, you've got tonnes of equity on this flop.


Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I think this was not such an interesting hand to post after all... When looking through the hand I ehm... didn't notice I had outs to the near nut straight.

So I was afraid of my opponents
*drawing to a straight
*drawing to a flush
*drawing to overcards

I wanted them out of the pot of course. The pot is going to become very big. So I 3-bet the flop. To get button out and hopefully SB as well.

But I considered waiting until the turn to get them out (or rather to get SB out as well). But one thing that came to my mind was that I have very few safe cards coming on the turn.

It occured to me that when I have few safe cards coming on the turn, then, generally I don't want to wait until the turn to raise? Because well...

1) my equity will not change very much between the flop and the turn?

2) (In this hand... not holding any straight draw) I am ahead a lot on the flop, more often than I am on the turn and hence much more often than my pot equity % is. And in this hand I actually _can_ get "a lot" of weak draws out by checking.

... sort of?

[jba]

what if it is:

Flop: (9 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB bets, UTG raises, Hero ..., (Button left to act)

now do we wait for the turn to raise?

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
what if it is:

Flop: (9 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB bets, UTG raises, Hero ..., (Button left to act)

now do we wait for the turn to raise?

[/ QUOTE ]


imo, no. This is still a 3-bet.

What card are you hoping for on the turn that will make you want to raise? a club? a 7? an ace? a king? a queen? a ten? a 5 five? a 9? .... get my drift?

You're supposed to raise with the best hand, not wait to raise with a worse one....

Raise now. It'll be 2 more back to SB to call, so you'll either make him pay or make him fold.




Adam

[sthief09]

waiting for the turn to raise isn't bad. getting SB out on the flop would be nice though. also caling the flop lets you see if it gets 3-bet behind you.

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
waiting for the turn to raise isn't bad. getting SB out on the flop would be nice though. also caling the flop lets you see if it gets 3-bet behind you.

[/ QUOTE ]



Again, sthief ... what cards are you hoping will fall on the turn that will leave you feeling comfortable raising?


Adam

[sthief09]

2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, Q, Ac, Kc, maybe any other A or K. basically anything but a 6, J, or T

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
waiting for the turn to raise isn't bad. getting SB out on the flop would be nice though. also caling the flop lets you see if it gets 3-bet behind you.

[/ QUOTE ]



Again, sthief ... what cards are you hoping will fall on the turn that will leave you feeling comfortable raising?


Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say about 30 of 47 cards could fall on the turn that I'd be happy to raise the turn with. For the record though, I'd be much more likely to 3bet this flop. If the action went bet call instead of bet raise, sometimes I would wait to pop the turn.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
waiting for the turn to raise isn't bad. getting SB out on the flop would be nice though. also caling the flop lets you see if it gets 3-bet behind you.

[/ QUOTE ]



Again, sthief ... what cards are you hoping will fall on the turn that will leave you feeling comfortable raising?


Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say about 30 of 47 cards could fall on the turn that I'd be happy to raise the turn with. For the record though, I'd be much more likely to 3bet this flop. If the action went bet call instead of bet raise, sometimes I would wait to pop the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'd 3-bet it too. I was just saying that waiting for the turn isn't bad.

[MAxx]

i'd have no problem popping Ks, but I'd fear the opposing flush draw more.

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
For the record though, I'd be much more likely to 3bet this flop. If the action went bet call instead of bet raise, sometimes I would wait to pop the turn.



[/ QUOTE ]



This is my thinking as well.


Adam

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd 3-bet it too. I was just saying that waiting for the turn isn't bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm with you. i was just thinking further like you were.