standard, right?

[schwza]

this is a 33.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t775)
UTG+2 (t995)
MP1 (t695)
MP2 (t605)
MP3 (t840)
CO (t650)
Button (t985)
SB (t545)
BB (t1070)
UTG (t840)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t75</font>, Hero calls t75, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, BB calls t45.

Flop: (t240) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t30</font>, UTG calls t30, Hero calls t30.

Turn: (t330) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t30</font>, UTG calls t30, Hero calls t30.

River: (t420) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t125</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t640 (All-In)</font>, BB folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: t1185

edit: included, um, more than 4 words.

[durron597]

Playing a 33 is standard.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Playing a 33 is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

tee-hee... oops. a little bit more added to post.

[HighestCard]

Everything looks great except the push at the end because your only going to get called by the hand that beats you. Although your move prevents anybody from seeing your hand.

Either way works, but I still like calling.

[durron597]

Honestly, no one has really shown post flop strength and that board is scary. I think I just call the river and hope for an overcall from BB. UTG isn't calling you without a T in which case you chop, and a push is a lot of chips on a scary board, and a minraise just screams "I want a call".

Edit: realize there are only so many tens in the deck, and you can see two of them. If UTG does have one it makes it really unlikely BB will, but he may call getting great odds. If you raise he will almost certainly fold.

[mlagoo]

as donkish as it seems i may minraise at the end. a KT is almost never going to be in someone's hand here, so I want to get value from all the two pair type hands out there. and, whereas they are running from the push, they might make a crying call for a minraise.

or you could also raise to something like 300 (essentially a minraise, but slightly less fishy).

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Everything looks great except the push at the end because your only going to get called by the hand that beats you. Although your move prevents anybody from seeing your hand.

Either way works, but I still like calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

What, you put UTG on exactly KT? What other hand beats Hero?

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everything looks great except the push at the end because your only going to get called by the hand that beats you. Although your move prevents anybody from seeing your hand.

Either way works, but I still like calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

What, you put UTG on exactly KT? What other hand beats Hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think he's saying no worse hand will call, so just go for the overcall.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I just call the river and hope for an overcall from BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

this would be the other option for me.

in other words, i value call my nuts (or, almost nuts =).

[HighestCard]

[ QUOTE ]
What, you put UTG on exactly KT? What other hand beats Hero?


[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing else, but why take the risk if you have no more chips to gain because I severly doubt somebody is calling down with top pair here.

I doubt the players would get much information from a showdown, like I said either way works but I prefer calling.

Edit: good job schwza beating me to it

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What, you put UTG on exactly KT? What other hand beats Hero?


[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing else, but why take the risk if you have no more chips to gain because I severly doubt somebody is calling down with top pair here.

I doubt the players would get much information from a showdown, like I said either way works but I prefer calling.

Edit: good job schwza beating me to it

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, so we all agree just call the river /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What, you put UTG on exactly KT? What other hand beats Hero?


[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing else, but why take the risk if you have no more chips to gain because I severly doubt somebody is calling down with top pair here.

I doubt the players would get much information from a showdown, like I said either way works but I prefer calling.

Edit: good job schwza beating me to it

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, so we all agree just call the river /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

interesting. i don't think i've ever just called the (near) nuts on the end.

i'm still not convinced it's right though. if i get a donk-ish call from either player with set/2 pair/AA etc, i get an extra ~500. if i call and get an overcall, i get an extra 125. if i just call and utg has exactly KT, i save a bunch of chips. so i need to get the overcall ~3.5x as often as a donkish call of the push.

ok, i'll believe that would happen. a call's better.

[seaniswise]

minraise or push. the guy is gonna call or fold, probably call, and it'll all probably have very little to do with the amount of your bet and more to do with his "feeling" at the moment.

btw i'd call a minraise with top two pair here. besides the pot odds:
1 - you never know what these kids are minraising the river with.
2 - you NEVER KNOW what these kids are minraising the river with.

[seaniswise]

ok i change my mind. i like the call, hoping for an overcall.. esp with the BB's initiative on the flop/turn and the fact that you have two of the 10's in hand.

though by not raising, you put yourself into a "wtf do i do now" position if BB minraises and UTG pushes. then either of them could have KT, though it's far from a sure thing 'cause well, you're holding two of them...

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
minraise or push. the guy is gonna call or fold, probably call, and it'll all probably have very little to do with the amount of your bet and more to do with his "feeling" at the moment.

btw i'd call a minraise with top two pair here. besides the pot odds:
1 - you never know what these kids are minraising the river with.
2 - you NEVER KNOW what these kids are minraising the river with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Miniraising is silly because:

1) BB will almost certainly fold without a T
2) It looks like a ten that wants a call
3) You get the same number of chips as when BB decides to overcall.

So the options are really push/fold. But UTG's bet doesn't look like he has a hand like 2pair/set. And a push is a lot of chips for a 1 pair hand to be calling here, and since the Q was the big card he probably doesn't have top pair.

Usually calling going for the overcall isn't correct in NL, but I think in this case it is.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

though by not raising, you put yourself into a "wtf do i do now" position if BB minraises and UTG pushes. then either of them could have KT, though it's far from a sure thing 'cause well, you're holding two of them...

[/ QUOTE ]

You have got to be kidding me, worrying about that is FPS. If it happens I call and lose (lose? I'm chopping almost all the time), so be it.

[fnord_too]

I don't like the river here. Calling for the overcall may not work, so maybe mini raising or raising to 300 is possibly better. Pushing just gives your opponents and easy way out if they have less than a set, and quite possibly a painful but correct fold with a set.

Edit because I left out the word "possibly"

[fnord_too]

I don't know how likely an overcall here is. A lot of times you will not get an overcall, and the small bet at the end is just a blocking type bet, but suckers (and I am occasionally in that group /images/graemlins/frown.gif) will call a small raise after a blocking bet.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how likely an overcall here is. A lot of times you will not get an overcall, and the small bet at the end is just a blocking type bet, but suckers (and I am occasionally in that group /images/graemlins/frown.gif) will call a small raise after a blocking bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, BB did bet the flop and the turn.... I think it's more likely that BB will overcall then it is that BB will call a minraise AND UTG will call too.

So a minraise only really does beter than an overcall if we think it's likelier that UTG will call the minraise than BB overcalling us. However the drawback is that we reopen the betting when UTG has the nuts.

[bennies]

I fold preflop with 8 players behind me.

On the flop I strongly consider raising to get the t300 already in the pot. If anyone had flopped trips I assume they would have bet harder on this board.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how likely an overcall here is. A lot of times you will not get an overcall, and the small bet at the end is just a blocking type bet, but suckers (and I am occasionally in that group /images/graemlins/frown.gif) will call a small raise after a blocking bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, BB did bet the flop and the turn.... I think it's more likely that BB will overcall then it is that BB will call a minraise AND UTG will call too.

So a minraise only really does beter than an overcall if we think it's likelier that UTG will call the minraise than BB overcalling us. However the drawback is that we reopen the betting when UTG has the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

DOH! Poor reading comprehension skills, I was reading the action as bet call call on the flop and turn and bet on the river, check bet on the river. (basically in my flawed perception I had schwa acting second post flop, not third).

So, yeah, calling is the only play here. (Sadly, he even converted the hand so I can't blame that.)

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold preflop with 8 players behind me.

On the flop I strongly consider raising to get the t300 already in the pot. If anyone had flopped trips I assume they would have bet harder on this board.

[/ QUOTE ]

more input on earlier streets would be appreciated... i certainly thought about both of these at the time.

i'd have folded 99 pre-flop, fwiw.