Two Interesting 5.50 hands

Assume no reads.

Hand 1:

Hero 870
Villain 1090.
7 players are left

Blinds are 10/20

Hero has J/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/heart.gif in UTG + 1 with 7 players left

UTG folds
Hero raises to 70
Folds to villain in SB who calls
BB folds

Pot = 160
Flop: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif8/images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain checks
Hero bets 100
Villain calls

Pot = 360
Turn: 9/images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain checks
Hero bets 250
Villain calls

River: 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Villain bets 500 (putting hero all in)
Hero calls

Hand 2:
(I think this hand was played very well; I may be wrong, but I'll defend the passive line after I get a few flames for it.)

Villain 3350
Hero 3675
UTG 2275
Button 1060

Blinds 50/100

Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gifT/images/graemlins/heart.gif
2 folds
Villain completes SB
Hero checks

Pot = 200

Flop: A/images/graemlins/heart.gifJ/images/graemlins/spade.gifK/images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain checks
Hero checks

Pot = 200
Turn: J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villain bets 260
Hero calls

Pot = 720
River: 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Villain checks
Hero checks

Comments?

Lol, nobody considers $5.50 hands to be interesting. Just pretend it's a $215 with idiots.

[se2schul]

Hand 1:
The flop is draw heavy. I'd push the flop or at least bet big enough to give him incorrect odds to draw. Since it's a $5, I'm leaning towards pushing because you can often expect a call if he caught any piece of the board.

Hand 2:
AT is a tricky hand to play. I don't think you played the hand horribly. I probably would've bet 1/2 pot on the flop and bet 3/4 pot on the turn, but I would've been uneasy doing so. AT is really tricky. You checked the flop, but were prepared to call a large turn bet. I'm not saying that this is wrong, but I usually like to be the one raising, not the one calling. When villain checks the river, I assume that he has either a weak ace or nothing at all. It may be worth betting the river for value. I don't think checking is bad either though if you think he can be tricky holding a J.

[Hornacek]

[ QUOTE ]
Lol, nobody considers $5.50 hands to be interesting. Just pretend it's a $215 with idiots.

[/ QUOTE ]
I could have sworn I just read in another thread that you were berating someone for making fun of the stakes that you play at... doesn't seem to apply to you though, huh? Thanks for adding a useless post.

As for the OP, the first hand I would have played more aggressively post-flop. Possibly a bigger bet on the flop and turn, but probably not by too much. The river bet might have scared me (depending on the read of villain), because he may have caught a dirty two pair or something equally disgusting. However, glad it worked out for you. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lol, nobody considers $5.50 hands to be interesting. Just pretend it's a $215 with idiots.

[/ QUOTE ]
I could have sworn I just read in another thread that you were berating someone for making fun of the stakes that you play at... doesn't seem to apply to you though, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I've ever criticized anyone for making fun of the average joe at my level.

Anyway, thanks for the commentary. Both of you seem to think that larger bets in hand 1 would probably be a good idea. How much larger? What hands do I want to price out that I haven't already?

I used to consistently bet pot until I realized that 2-1 against 1-card draws are pretty rare.

[se2schul]

[ QUOTE ]
Both of you seem to think that larger bets in hand 1 would probably be a good idea. How much larger? What hands do I want to price out that I haven't already?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my thinking:
If you had simply limped PF and villain called in the SB (and magically the BB folded), you are pretty much up against a random hand, which could mean 2 pair on such a rag board. This isn't the case though. You raised PF and villain called - it's no longer a random hand making 2-pair on the rag board less likely. It wasn't a HUGE raise, so villain could have called you with all kinds of questionable holdings. Basically, I've decided that he doesn't have 2-pair on the flop because of your raise. He could've called you with soooted cards giving him a flush draw a pocket pair (probably smaller than your JJ or he would've reraised), so he could have a set, or overcards, but most likely I put him on some kind've flush or straight draw. Most of the time you're ahead here. The only thing you should be concerned about is giving him incorrect odds to call his draw or to make his hand. If he happens to have a made hand on the flop (some weird 2-pair or set) then so be it, you go broke, but in the long run you'll make money like this. Push the flop or provide a large overbet like 2 or 3 times pot or something like that. You can work out the math to find out bets that are incorrect to call based on the draws you put him on. Pushing the flop is simpler. Simple is good.

[se2schul]

To sum it up in more general terms:

Preflop was good. On the flop stop and evaluate the situation. Put any villains on a range of hands based on the preflop play and based on any reads you've managed to obtain. Based on your evaluation, determine if you rate to be ahead. Are you ahead by alot? Behind? Coinflip? Now the decision should be easy. If you get sucked out, then pat yourself on the back for an EV play. If you got outplayed or put him on an incorrect range of hands, try and learn from it.

[ QUOTE ]
To sum it up in more general terms:

Preflop was good. On the flop stop and evaluate the situation. Put any villains on a range of hands based on
the preflop play and based on any reads you've managed to obtain. Based on your evaluation, determine if you rate to be ahead. Are you ahead by alot? Behind? Coinflip? Now the decision should be easy. If you get sucked out, then pat yourself on the back for an EV play. If you got outplayed or put him on an incorrect range of hands, try and learn from it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The range of hands that I put my typical villain on when they call a raise in Bodog level two here is basically A2-AT, K2+, TJ, QJ, QTs, 22-55 and all suited connectors. Admittedly, I don't stop to think about this range much, but once I get more evidence I'm inclined to assume it's one of these hands (others would usually raise/fold I think).

I'm having a serious problem finding a hand that villain has odds to call me with here on the flop that isn't a favorite.

[se2schul]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm having a serious problem finding a hand that villain has odds to call me with here on the flop that isn't a favorite.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're thinking wrong for a 5.50 tourney. Villain isn't working out pot odds (unless he's the world's best $5.50 player). He probably has a hand like on of the following (that you'd want him to call the push with):

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 8c 6d 4d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Jc Jh 520 52.53 461 46.57 9 0.91 0.530
Qd Td 461 46.57 520 52.53 9 0.91 0.470

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 8c 6d 4d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Jc Jh 729 73.64 253 25.56 8 0.81 0.740
7s 7c 253 25.56 729 73.64 8 0.81 0.260

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 8c 6d 4d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Jc Jh 695 70.20 287 28.99 8 0.81 0.706
5c 5d 287 28.99 695 70.20 8 0.81 0.294

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 8c 6d 4d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Jc Jh 702 70.91 273 27.58 15 1.52 0.717
Ac Kd 273 27.58 702 70.91 15 1.52 0.283

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 8c 6d 4d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Jc Jh 523 52.83 458 46.26 9 0.91 0.533
Ad 2d 458 46.26 523 52.83 9 0.91 0.467

Hands like this you are behind

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 8c 6d 4d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Jc Jh 445 44.95 536 54.14 9 0.91 0.454
Ad Kd 536 54.14 445 44.95 9 0.91 0.546