Another check-up

[jt1]

I feel annoying posting all these check ups but a)I'm still new to SnG's and 2) the first check up I posted showed that I should have folded when I thought push was standard.
No read /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

150/300
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: TD126 (4155)
Hero in BB (1557)
Seat 6: Tank1114 (1365)
Button (923)


Dealt to Hero[ 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif ]
Tank1114 folds.
Button raises (923) to 923 all-in
TD126 folds.
Hero calls (773)

[derdo]

I would fold this. Your position is great for stealing since the big stack is on your right. Don't take the obvious coin flip here, and push with any two after big stack folds in one of the next hands.

[Wolf101]

I'm quickly finding that "standard" is subjective.

[Freudian]

The blinds are really 75/150? If so it is an autofold.

[bluefeet]

I had a very similar situation last night (posted)...calling w/ 88. Replies where mixed. In my case, the pusher had me slightly outchipped (and it was 88 of course).

I think your position at the table calls for you to fold this. You'll leave the blinds no lighter than t1100. Better yet, you have both other shortie's on your left. Provided big stack gives you the opportunities, you still have time to abuse the others in their blinds.

[bennies]

I fold here, if the bb was 400 or higher I might consider calling.



[ QUOTE ]

I think your position at the table calls for you to fold this. You'll leave the blinds no lighter than t1100. Better yet, you have both other shortie's on your left. Provided big stack gives you the opportunities, you still have time to abuse the others in their blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting. Do you think pushing into small stacks give you more folding equity than pushing into big stacks? Usually I don't think so, but maybe it helps that there are two of them (each one hopes the other one will bust first)?

[jt1]

Thanks for replying. It's funny how sometimes you can take a step back b4 taking 2 forward. When I first started playig SnG's, I would have folded this easy. But when I first started, I usually just coasted ITM. I've learned since that that is bad poker and began pushing very aggressively. Very recently, I've been trying to pick spots to defend against pushes. I thought that this was one of those times.

The most difficult thing to do when learning how to play well is to balance your instincts with principles that you've just begun learning.

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
it helps that there are two of them (each one hopes the other one will bust first)?

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly...and the fact that the THREE of you have equal'ish stacks. the blinds are not high enough yet for a 'desperate' type call -- same reason for advocating your fold on this one.

[bennies]

thanks

[lorinda]

[ QUOTE ]
The most difficult thing to do when learning how to play well is to balance your instincts with principles that you've just begun learning.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is also the difficulty in posting.

Often it is the case that I'll post something different to what I would do because of the strengths and weaknesses of both myself and of the poster.

In this situation, derdo's post is the best advice. You fold mainly because you have such a great position to just get chips back at will.
Because of your great seat, your folding equity is more important to you than usual and so calling for a likely coin toss has a bigger downside than it would have in some apparently similar situations.

Both of your main opponents have to raise through the big stack in order to build up... either that or fight each other.

Lori

[lorinda]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting. Do you think pushing into small stacks give you more folding equity than pushing into big stacks? Usually I don't think so, but maybe it helps that there are two of them (each one hopes the other one will bust first)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pushing into people who can't afford to call and can afford to fold is the best /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Lori

[bennies]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Interesting. Do you think pushing into small stacks give you more folding equity than pushing into big stacks? Usually I don't think so, but maybe it helps that there are two of them (each one hopes the other one will bust first)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pushing into people who can't afford to call and can afford to fold is the <font color="red"> nutz </font> /images/graemlins/tongue.gif



[/ QUOTE ]
thanks

[jt1]

Is the only difference between this hand and the following, my position relative to the chip stacks.

PP 33 No read
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: TheMatadr64s (875)
SB: (795)
BB: Hero(1145) 995 after the bb
Seat 4: Trace2016 (2365)
Seat 6: Gregg59 (840)
Seat 8: Brad135971 (1213)
Seat 9: bbkia (767)
pushboy72704 posts small blind (75)
Hero posts big blind (150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero[ Ad, 5d ]
Trace2016 folds.
Gregg59 folds.
Brad135971 folds.
bbkia folds.
TheMatadr64s folds.
SB (720) to 795
pushboy72704 is all-In.
Hero calls (645)


In the above hand, I am to the left of the chip leader. My FE is lower so my need to take a stand is greater. Correct?
Furthermore, my odds are greater. I probably have 8-3 odds here. Is that big enough to take a stand when the situation is not yet desperate? Is it the combination of these two factors that make this the correct call, or would the call be correct in any level 5 situation regardless of position and stack size, or is the call incorect because the situation is not yet desperate.

sorry if this is a bit too wordy

[lorinda]

I think you have enough chips to fold this one and also enough to retain some folding equity (As all the other stacks are lower in this example.)

I think that if you folded every hand you consider to currently be a close call, you would do a lot better.

I would guess, and it's more of a guess than an accurate estimate (maybe others could chime in), that I go out of 80% of tournaments having raised or bet, rather than having called..... and I'm one of the rocks around here

It's hard to get knocked out if you never have to show your cards.

Lori

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that if you folded every hand you consider to currently be a close call, you would do a lot better.


[/ QUOTE ]

indeed. good rule of thumb when fine tuning bubble decision (which I'm still doing btw):

debating an open-push? push.
debating an all-in call? fold.

it's funny how the wiring in your brain can justify NOT pushing pushables, while at the same time have you calling when you really shouldn't. these two tendencies seem to go hand-in-hand.

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
it's funny how the wiring in your brain can justify NOT pushing pushables, while at the same time have you calling when you really shouldn't. these two tendencies seem to go hand-in-hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

For me it's the exact opposite. I'll push anything but I'll fold almost everything. These last 2 hands were posted, because, I think I should loosen up my calling standards. According to Lori, though, I shouldn't. 3 days ago, I would have folded both these hands. I should either trust Lori and just go back to my old all-in calling standards, which was basically fold unless you have a premium hand or close to it, or I should try to develop some hard and fast rules.

[lorinda]

Keep asking, and don't just take my word for things either, I play a slightly odd game compared to many here.

Lori

[Van Strummer]

According to ICM the call yields a $EV of between 0.025 and 0.033 (depending on his pushing range). Even though ICM doesnt work optimal with big blinds, I still can`t see giving up on this call if the $EV is anywhere near these results.

By the way, this being a 33 or less buyin SNG I wouldnt be surprised if the BB folds to your 630 push next hand if you get the chance to push.

[derdo]

I think, this hand is a clearer fold. Pot odds may be better here but with A5 you have much more chance to be dominated than 66. And in this one you still have more than 6BB.
You have the chip leader to your left allright but you can still hurt him. He has to risk 40% of his chips to call you.
Whereas, in the original hand your opponents will have to push into 4000 chip stack with 1200-1400 chips with blinds at 300. He is very likely to call one of them in the following 2-3 hands.
And in this hand with more people remaining, you have more time to wait for an good open/push rather than making a not-so-sure call with A5.
It always feels like wrong while letting a small stack SB steal my BB with a hand that is most likely worse than mine but there is nothing I can do against it. Sure I can hurt him by calling but not without hurting myself as well.