should i be calling this down? 10/20

[helpmeout]

Party Poker 10/20 (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.
limp, limp hero completes in SB 4 way pot

Flop: 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
hero bets, BB folds, loose passive CO calls, TAG button calls,

Turn: 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
hero bets, loose passive CO calls, TAG 24/15/2 raises.

Me folds... is this correct here? I have no heart and pot is semi protected with loose passive. Or should i ignore the fact that the loose passive has called? obviously the pot is protected somewhat as TAG needs a made hand either a pair of aces or Kh9 sort of hand or a flush.

Also can someone post a link for a different convertor if there is one or tell me the deal with bisons convertor as it has gone funky.

Cheers

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
Also can someone post a link for a different convertor if there is one or tell me the deal with bisons convertor as it has gone funky.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
***** Hand History for Game XXXXXXXXXX *****
$XX/$XX Texas Hold'em - Monday, August 29, 19:09:10 EDT 2005


[/ QUOTE ]

Remove the word "Texas" from the second line of the hand history before converting.

Edit: Good fold.

[Monty Cantsin]

Fold good.

Delete the word "Texas".

/mc

[bobbyi]

I would fold here.

[steaknshake925]

i like folding also

[helpmeout]

Looks like folding is the most popular option.

Next question how high a kicker do you need to call here?

[7ontheline]

How about the K /images/graemlins/heart.gif? Heh.

Seriously though. . .maybe a T/J? The TAG would have raised anything higher. Still, that's a bad board to have only a pair of aces with no hearts.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

Do you think the villain would raise w/a worse hand knowing that you might fold a better one?

(I knew this hand looked familiar)

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Villain has 5d Ad (one pair, aces).

<font color="black">-Craig </font>

[helpmeout]

No the TAG needs a pair because loose passive called, so likely also has a pair and there is no guarantee that I fold.

I thought Kh9 or qh9 would be a possibility.

[helpmeout]

Seems everyone is playing back at me, looking at the board i thought it would be unlikely though.

Too bad for you the loose passive made 2 pair on the river.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

[ QUOTE ]
Too bad for you the loose passive made 2 pair on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I didn't like that. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

This thread made me feel a little better though. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-Craig

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought Kh9 or qh9 would be a possibility.

[/ QUOTE ]
You put a TAG limper on Q9o?

[Derek in NYC]

The problem with playing offsuit weak aces from the blind in a MW field, is that even if you flop your top pair, you're vulnerable to fourth street raises from worse (suited) aces, drawing hands, middle pairs, etc. Against a field this size, I tend to fold hands like A7o after limpers, or alternatively, if I decide to play, I have a preference to showing down my ace on all but the scariest boards (e.g. monotone, str8 on the board, etc.) One big dillema is how to handle fourth street--whether to bet, check raise, or check-call. My personal feeling is that hands like this are too dangerous to play with a TAG behind you.

[helpmeout]

I have limped with q9o so its a possibility K9o is more likely though from memory both other players were loose passive.

These are just considerations besides an Ace or a flush.

[beachbum]

I think a TAG button raises the flop if he's 4-flushed. I'd be more worried about the loose-passive being flushed.

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
My personal feeling is that hands like this are too dangerous to play with a TAG behind you.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no reason anyone in this field should have A with better kicker so we can play a flopped A pretty aggressive, kicker is normally no problem. The main reason we want an ok kicker - and 7 is pretty ok - is that if we hit our kicker its easier to play 7s then 3s.

In this hand: I wouldnt put TAG on an Ace because it makes little sense to not raise it preflop against 2 limpers. Axs is most likely better then limpers hands, we want blinds out (specially if we hit our kicker) and if we hit a draw the others will often check to preflopraiser + pot gives us good odds to draw.

But if button limped with Axs I like his turnraise. Other TAG could bet with a lot of hands on flop, loosepassive could have anything so no need to push on flop. And when flushcard hit turn three things will happen: 1) Our raise will look much stronger then it is. 2) Any ok heart have to call. 3) If anyone got flush they will 3bet and we can easily fold.

If I was hero and he raised turn I would think: Flush makes no sense since he would have raised flop for freecard so he either got a set or 9s with flushdraw or Axs. When someone raises a turn and I dont think that turn helped him and a not that likely hand like a flopped set is what beats me I would normally call.

If limpers preflop are bad K9o, Q9o, T9o makes sense, but if they are decent I guess TAG would fold them.

[Monty Cantsin]

Good analysis. Except I would expect a TAG to raise any A he intends to play on the button after a loose/passive CO limps.

/mc

[Monty Cantsin]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the villain would raise w/a worse hand knowing that you might fold a better one?

(I knew this hand looked familiar)

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Villain has 5d Ad (one pair, aces).
</font>


[/ QUOTE ]

Raise pre-flop.

/mc

[sthief09]

I don't give this guy credit for knowing the guy in between is loose and trying to squeeze you out. you're beat. I think TAG button likely has a set or threes here. I think even a 15 PFR is raising preflop with an A worth playing

[ALL1N]

Why can't he just have an ace? Not all TAG's raise their suited aces here, and postflop he's played a bad ace to perfection. Maybe call the turn, fold the river unimproved (as if he's got a bad ace it'll likely be a free showdown play), but I'm not too keen on folding the turn.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
Why can't he just have an ace? Not all TAG's raise their suited aces here, and postflop he's played a bad ace to perfection. Maybe call the turn, fold the river unimproved (as if he's got a bad ace it'll likely be a free showdown play), but I'm not too keen on folding the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]


well you're calling on equity here and not the chance that he has the best hand. 1/5 of his equity is chopped off immediately because of hearts, and they probably have more outs as well. also he only has 2 outs to improvement and we're not so sure the button will not value bet an A against an aggressive player (who could've been betting a 9) and a loose player who could pay off with a worse hand. lastly there's a bit of a parlay from the loose-passive guy. even though he probably can't beat an A, it's possible that he can and is scared of the 3-flush

[helpmeout]

I expected an ace, possibly K9 Q9 or a flush, smaller chance of a set.

Now look at my kicker a7o there is a 4 and 3 on the board so I'm hoping he has A2 A5 A6. A2 and A5 both have wheel draws also. Loose passive also called so he still has to have him beat.