AK on TTT flop?

[Taraz]

What do you guys do in this situation? Both players in the pot with me are donkish and could have called with anything from pocket pairs to dominated aces to KJs and the like. If I bet I have to go all-in right? The line I took was horrendous, so I was just wondering what different good options are.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t625)
Button (t665)
SB (t1615)
BB (t1760)
UTG (t2690)
Hero (t1080)
MP2 (t1565)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t50, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls t200, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls t150.

Flop: (t675) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Final Pot: t675

[Taraz]

When I look at this post it looks like a pretty dumb question so decided to revise it: Is this a push or no?

[Bluff Daddy]

well I assume utg checked the flop? Im pushing there

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a push or no?


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know. Adding thread to my favorites...

[SammyKid11]

Personally, I'd check and give CO the chance to bluff at this with all his chips. If UTG then folded, I'd call his push. If instead CO checks behind, maybe you catch an A or K on the turn that beats UTG's small pocket pair.

Problem with open pushing the flop, IMO, is that you stand only to lose. With either shortie or big stack, they're calling your push with a PP...and especially because you raised PF, they're throwing away virtually everything that you beat. So pushing really seems to gain you very little except possibly avoiding the possibility that CO checks behind you and then UTG open-bluffs you out on the turn and/or someone catches their card on the turn.

I don't know if those things are happening often enough for pushing to be correct.

But in all reality, this is fairly confusing...that's my logic, but I'd love to hear replies from some of the all-stars.

[SammyKid11]

Actually, another way to go (to avoid giving a free card) is possibly throwing in a small bet...like around t200. This bet keeps you from committing yourself fully to the pot, makes it appear as though maybe you want to keep people in the hand, and gives you a chance to pick up the pot right there. Perhaps this is the best alternative to pushing or checking.

Yeah, now I'm totally confused myself.

[Angelic_Ace]

I would not push here, a small pocket pair is quite possibly what at least 1 of the other players has. I would check and try to get a free card/check it down. If nobody bets the flop, you could fire on the turn.

[Taraz]

So assuming UTG checks and you bet ~200 and CO calls? What now if you miss the turn?

[Angelic_Ace]

I would check the turn, he may have called with a small pocket pair, or he has an ace high hand like you. This early in a tourney im happy with playing this board passively. AK is nothing to lose a bunch of chips on early.

What stakes is this? In 10+1, I find that a flop of trips makes donks play horribly. I used to assume I was beat without a PP in situations like this, until I started to get to showdowns here against Q-high. I'm pushing this, assuming the odds of their making a really dumb and weird mistake here are better than the odds that this play is a really dumb mistake.

[Angelic_Ace]

How is this better than taking a free card, which might be an A or K? I think you're giving the players too little credit to think they are calling your flop push with K high or worse.
Pushing is just taking a big gamble with your chips here, gambles are what you want to avoid this early.

[Taraz]

Sorry this is a $55.