Deleted Thread -- A Clarification

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

Yesterday, Mat Sklansky, our moderator, deleted a thread that contained critical comments towards Barry Shulman, the publisher of Card Player Magazine, involving his answer to a query regarding an Ultimate Bet / Card Player promotion. It is our policy not to allow advertisements initiated in the posts. However, we do encourage Internet sites and other poker/gambling organizations to respond to questions. Thus, based on conversations that I have had with Jeff Shulman, Barry was within our guidelines. The reason the thread was deleted is that Mat felt the attacks were inappropriate for our forums, and thus made a decision to take the whole thread down.

In the future, when Barry chooses to answer a question, we ask that everyone treat him with the proper respect that he deserves. Barry knows more about the goings on in the world of poker than virtually anyone, and his contributions here should be welcomed by all.

Best wishes,

Mason Malmuth
Publisher
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC

[B Shulman]

Thank you for the kind words, Mason.

Although you invited me to answer the question again, the whole thread is gone so I will give the very short version here /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

It clarifies the current UltimateBet promotion for new signups. The gist is:

Participate in a special $7,400 free roll JUST for new UltimateBet players who signup from CardPlayer.com during April. This is in addition to any other general signup bonuses available to the general public.

No gimmicks. They want new players.

For details click the special UltimateBet link on www.CardPlayer.com. (http://www.CardPlayer.com.)

[jek187]

No gimmicks. They want new players.

"They" being UB.

UB doesn't need any new players. They need to make some serious upgrades as they can't handle the volume they have now. I think it's great bringing as many new players to online poker as possible, but I imagine many newbies playing UB this weekend got turned off to the whole idea of online poker when a good portion of the software doesn't work due to too much traffic.

[Inthacup]

Do I still get the 20% deposit bonus on my first deposit?

[B Shulman]

Yes - as long as that offer is available to the public. I think they have one good through this weeekend.

[B Shulman]

"They" is UB.

They want new players and feel that players who come from CardPlayer are serious (translated - many hours of play) players which is why they are specific to our newsletter subscribers.

I understand their volume of players from WPT was so huge that they were totally unprepaired for it.

[Instinct]

Hi Barry,
I just went to cardplayer and I only saw the tourny that took place today. if I sign up now is there also a $7400 freeroll for all new players in April as well?

[B Shulman]

Go to www.CardPlayer.com (http://www.CardPlayer.com) and click on :

"Win a package to Aruba and a chance at $500,000 ...
CLICK HERE to learn how." It is next to the big UB banner.

[Tuco]

Barry,

Please tell us if this is an affiliate deal that you have with UB. Do you get a perecentage of the rake from each player or an amount per head that you sign up.

Not expecting any response...

Tuco.

[GrannyMae]

tuco,

why in the world would you care? it is a commercial website that does not try to hide that fact. the guy can't make money on his site?? that's crazy, and you know it. tell us what your real issue is, don't cite a common business practice then build a conspiracy around it.

what's your beef?? we are all ears

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[Tuco]

Is this post from the same person that got so "sick of all the people" advertising for sign-ups that you offer to rebate the entire referring bonus? Why is it different for you when Barry Shulman does it?

There is no real issue. I have an affiliate account at party, as i'm sure most do here.

I don't advertise it here, like some do. Only if a new person who signs up asks for a code will I offer it to them. This is quite different from starting new threads to sign up new players. That is advertising. Plain and simple.

Tuco.

[Mike Haven]

fwiw, i fully supported mat's decision to delete the thread

it looked exactly like the typical question and answer ploy that we have seen here so often

the guy asked a most specific but naive question - it was his very first post - mr shulman, a rare poster here, answered it within a short period of time - his answer read like an advert

i vote we give mat his job back - he does a fine job for little pay

[RiverMel]

Agreed. This looked way too much like a set-up for my taste, and I'd be very very interested in seeing the IP logs to see the IPs of both posters.

[B Shulman]

Why wouldn't you expect a responce. I’m always happy to answer legitimate questions if possible.In a word, NO. However of course I want to demonstrate to advertisers how important we are to them.

This may be more than you want.

As you know since the beginning the business model for the magazine has been to give it away and earn revenues from advertisers.

We are trying to do the same on the Internet.

However the Internet is more pure in that the advertisers feel that they can do a better job of tracking results because of click throughs, bonus codes etc.

Our first job was to get readers and we did a B- job on that during the last year or so and are again totally revamping our site to make it more compelling for poker players to visit us.

Our next job was to prove to the sites that we could drive significant traffic to them from our site AND that CardPlayer readers are great for them because they are hardcore (read that play often). So, we have worked closely with a couple sites encouraging them to have special deals JUST for CardPlayer players.

Hopefully these attractive programs will create more volume and I will be able to raise my rates (yes, I am in business and raising ad rates is good).

Again my game plan is to do that by making the site more compelling for you, the player, to frequent and give the advertisers a forum to get their message out.

We are uncomfortable receiving a percentage of the drop but are very comfortable in raising rates if we increase the business that the advertisers get.

Business is not a zero sum game like poker where wins equal losses. If we do our job right it is a big win for the player, advertiser and us.

One final thought. Nobody is forced to pickup our magazines and nobody if EVER sent our newsletter unsolicited. Even our readers do not need to take advantage of special offers. They are only there for people who want them.

[rkiray]

Mr. Shulman,

The good news for you is that due to your post I went to your site and took advantage of this offer. I was already on your mailing list. Now that I have signed up for the tournament I believe your e-mail grossly distorts the nature of the offer. Since I enjoy your magazine, your web-site and know that you are a respected tournament player I will assume this was done out of ignorance, not malice.

You write :

Participate in a special $7,400 free roll JUST for new UltimateBet players who signup from CardPlayer.com during April.

This is completely false. The tournament is open to anyone with 200 Truepoints. The special offer for new members through cardplayer is that they will credit us with the 200 points so we can sign up for free. This is not nearly as good as a tournament just for people who are new and join through your site. In the future I hope you endevour to state facts more truthfully concerning special offers your company is involved with.

Sincerely,

Rick Kiray

[rusty JEDI]

I have been quite hard on some of the shills around here in the past. But i think you guys are off on this one. I dont think there is a problem with Barry's approach here. Especially considering he was just replying to a post. It is not like he started the thread for blatant advertising.

Just letting Barry know everyone isnt against thim.

[B Shulman]

To rkiray:

I see where it is misleading on the UB site and I am sorry, but you are quite wrong. I even just called Annie Duke to be certain that my facts are accurate.

To be quite precise, it is 100% for an unlimited number of new players who come from CardPlayer.com.

However, if for some reason by May 1 400 people have not signed up then they are inviting other players who previously joined UB from CardPlayer.com

Finally if by May 4 they still have fewer than 400 signups, then they will INVITE a select group of other people whom they choose, to play, but in that case the total is guaranteed not to exceed 400.

The only way to be certain you can play is to be a new signup at UB from CP.com.

[B Shulman]

Thanks. I am new here and always try to abide by the rules.

In fact, before I said anything, and being sensitive to doing things properly, my son spoke with Mason to be certain that I understand the ground rules.

[GrannyMae]

my son spoke with Mason to be certain that I understand the ground rules.


tell him to quit partying, and he will cash in more tourneys. and why have you not emailed me back from my rgp post where i offered to write a column for chocolate bars? you expect me to work for cheetos??


http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons4u/violent/sterb015.gif

[rkiray]

You are completely correct and I apologize for my previous post. At the time I wrote it I was feeling frustrated and I mistakely thought you had conned me. I signed up for the offer based on your post. The UB sign up screen made it appear to me that anyone with 200 UB points could sign up. Since I had accumulated 50 points in approximately 2 hours of play (and I play much tighter than the normal UB player) I was thinking this was ok but no big deal. There also was no other sign up bonuses that you stated there might be. So I thought this really wasn't that big a deal. I have since done more research and think it is a much better deal than I thought. I noticed similar supersatelites cost $100 (and I believe a $9 fee) or 22,000 UB points. So this is actually a $100 value which is a big deal. Sorry that I was confused yesterday, and once again my sincere apology.

Rick Kiray

[B Shulman]

To rkiray:

Accepted. I am sure there was no malice.

However perhaps you are also entitled to the signup bonus (or even have it somehow). It was my understanding that it was good through yesterday.

Maybe you signup before it was in place? Anyway I suggest you contact their support. It might prove fruitful.

[rusty JEDI]

Since I had accumulated 50 points in approximately 2 hours of play (and I play much tighter than the normal UB player) I was thinking this was ok but no big deal.


How tight you play shouldnt affect the number of points you earn at ultimate bet. You get points if you see the flop or not.

[rkiray]

Yesterday was my first day at that site so I haven't figurered out all the details yet. I think I overvalued the offer in my second post. I think the tourney that cost 22,000 points offers multiple seats, and the CP special just one (I'm not positive about either statement though). It is still a much better deal than I originally thought. Today I seem to be getting 50 points about every 90 minutes, so if the deal was only worth 200 points that would only be equivalent to 6 hours of play. It is worth much more than that.

Rick

[adam74]

I think I'm right about the following...

The 22000 point (or $100+9) entry tournaments - of which there are two each week up until August, I believe - will generally only offer 1 prize package (trip to Aruba, etc). Second place in the tourney will get nothing, unless there are more than 60 entrants, when second place will receive $100 per additional player. Once 60 more players sign up - to make a total of 120 - second prize will then also be the trip to Aruba.

[Did that make sense? I think I've confused myself. /forums/images/icons/confused.gif ]

[rkiray]

Yeah that sounds correct. But Barry's post says that there will be at least 400 people in the CP freeroll. If it only has one prize, to make the math simple, let's assume 420 people sign up through CP this month. That would be 7 prizes in the 22,000 tourney. So this CP freeroll is worth about 22000/7 or 3333 points. More than 16 times as valuable than I thought when I made the first post.

[B Shulman]

I'm starting to feel like a shill for UB. Annie should be making these posts /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

She probably can't post because she may still be in the Bellagio championship while I am posting here /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

Anyway it is way better than that. Most likely we will never get 400 new UB players in a month.

That means that you will be eligible EVERY month during the promotion to play in the special CP freeroll even though you sign up this month.

[B Shulman]

tell him to quit partying, and he will cash in more tourneys.

I would except he is still in that firkakta tournament at Bellagio and I am on the rail.

[GrannyMae]

oooo,

correctly spelled yiddish... i am moist


tell the boy we are rooting for him.

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