Donkbet by a pro

[MaxPower]

The BB is a very good professional player (and 2+2er). I don't know whether he knows my Eurobet name. I told him one time, but I'm not sure if he remembers it.

9 - handed 20/40 game on Party. Three folds and I raise with K /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif, a decent player cold-calls, and an unknown player cold-calls on the button, the sb folds and the BB calls.

Flop: 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, I bet, all three opponents call.

Turn: 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB Donkbets (but he is not a donk) and I have 2 opponents to act behind me. What is my play?

[lil']

Gotta raise, even if it may be what the BB wants you to do. The guys behind you, if they have some combination of pair + gutshot outs (like 9-J), you want them out.

[PokerBob]

hmmm...this is odd. I'm having a hard time giving villain a range here. If he's got a big one (JT or a set), he's c/ring the flop or maybe the turn. I guess maybe he'd play 98 this way, hoping you'd raise the turn to protect his hand. Weird. I think you should raise to charge the other players. You may be behind BB, but you likely have some outs and your hand is vulnerable to the other dudes.

[ QUOTE ]
Gotta raise, even if it may be what the BB wants you to do. The guys behind you, if they have some combination of pair + gutshot outs (like 9-J), you want them out.

[/ QUOTE ]
This statement is right, even though you could easily be trailing here, you must raise to protect your vulnerable hand the times you are good. By the way, if the pro 3 bets your raise you should fold since you are probably drawing close to dead. Also, after your turn raise, assuming you dont get 3 bet, you should be checking the river unimproved.

[MaxPower]

No, I don't think I can fold to a 3-bet. I'm not drawing dead most of the time and I have plenty of outs when I'm not drawing dead.

If I'm drawing dead, his turn bet wouldn't make much sense.

[ggbman]

Definitly need to shut out our other opponents, raise...

[StacysMom]

I like the raise, and no way do u fold to a 3 bet. You have alot of outs to corrupt 2 pair which he would most likely 3 bet. If u wanted, u coudl call the 3 bet and consider folding the river UI.

[Danenania]

I'm thinking his hand is either 96s or 86s most of the time. Something weaker may also be possible, but if he had a decent pair on the flop wouldn't he have led into you there? Perhaps he could also have a weak Q and want to see a safe turn before putting in a BB. All that said, I agree that you have to raise. Your chance of being ahead plus your outs if you aren't plus the danger of the players behind you on this board make it a necessity.

[fnord_too]

It sure looks like he wants you to raise to thin the field because he has a vulnerable holding. I think his range is too wide to even consider giving up the hand, and that you should oblige him and raise since it is in your best interest, too. If it goes fold/fold and he three bets, I'd put villain squarely on two pair. AQ I think just calls your raise (though maybe not) and a set would check raise the flop I think (set of sixes makes no since, so I will discount that).

[ActionBob]

Hmmmm. This hand sounds a bit familiar. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

You definitely need to raise here especially with two players to act behind you. Sure, you might be behind but with the chance that you're ahead plus the players behind you that you'd like to get out I think a raise is a must.

-ActionBob

[Hamlet]

Let's look at the most likely case. Say the BB has 98. Currently there are 6 big bets in the pot. If you raise, the two behind you will fold, and the BB will likely 3-bet, and you will call hoping to improve. You're getting 3 to 1 on your money for 8 outs. Implied odds are pretty minimal, since only the 3 Kings give you any hope of more than 1 bet on the river.

This is assuming neither opponent behind you has a real hand. If one of them has a flush draw, you're screwed. If the BB has a set, JT, or two pair with the Queen, you're screwed.

I think that for raising to be right, there needs to be some chance you're currently ahead. Would the BB bet QJ or something like AJ of spades?

[MaxPower]

OK, you guys are right. In the actual hand I just called and the Button called. I'm sure I had some brilliant reason for just calling but I forgot it /images/graemlins/grin.gif

The river was the 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

It was checked to the button, who bet, the bb folded, I called and the button showed Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

The only hand I can think of that makes sense for the BB is T9.

[ QUOTE ]
No, I don't think I can fold to a 3-bet. I'm not drawing dead most of the time and I have plenty of outs when I'm not drawing dead.

If I'm drawing dead, his turn bet wouldn't make much sense.

[/ QUOTE ]
When a person 3 bets the turn on this board most of the time with your top pair you will be drawing to zero outs if he holds JT or a set, 3 outs if he holds Q9 and 6 outs if he holds Q8. Given this hand range, I think folding to a 3 bet would be the right strategy given the pot odds. If Your opponent is more aggressive than this and would 3 bet other hands like 98, or other top pair type hands than I would call, but i dont think your opponent in this hand would do that, but i could be wrong. And if you do call the 3 bet I think you should seriously consider folding the river if you dont improve. If you feel obligated to call the river becuz of the size of the pot than thats even more reason to fold to the turn when your 3 bet by a sane player

[catlover]

I would not put BB on a monster here. If he has a monster, he would check raise you, and catch the field in the middle.

I think he has a hand where he wants to knock people out. Since you also have such a hand, you should cooperate by raising.

[DpR]

Why you check the river?