Frustrations with Paradise Poker

[Instinct]

Thought I'd share my concerns on how a situation has been handled by Paradise Poker, and why I will be playing somewhere else for a while.

I play mostly b/m games 10-20 above and have done very well last couple years but recently ( last few months ) have decided to put more hours in online and give it a go. I've been playing off and on at paradise for about 2 years and up to recently was the where I played most.
So here is my gripe:

I requested a cashout of $500 to my neteller account so that i could take advantage of the 20% 100more bonus at party. It never arrived. Numerous times over the cause of 6 days I was politely assured that they were having problems on their end ( about 3 different excuses ) and that my money would arrive in no less than 24hrs. I was told everything from: they were having technical problems, to it must have slipped through the cracks, to sorry we only make neteller cashouts in a batch once per day and will be in my account in 6 hrs. I was told they would get back to me as soon as possible. Never did I hear back.

So after sending another e-mail asking why it had not been done and being told on tuesday that it would be in my account wednesday morning and nothing happened, I decided to send a detailed e-mail to support with my frustrations, ( never once did I hear directly from them that it would not arrive ) So on wednesday . I explained to them that I was starting to play elsewhere and was very dissopointed on how the situation was handled. I mentioned that my friends at 2+2 generally had good things to say about their customer support and I was dissapointed.

2 hours later I receive an e-mail saying that they had looked at my account ( clearly this was the first time they actually looked ) and there was a misunderstanding of where my cashout was being sent. My funds arrive in my account immediatley. Clearly they lied that they were only able to do cashouts once per day. Clearly they never really looked into what the problem was.

Afterwards I sent an e-mail letting them know that they had cost me $100 and that i was very dissapointed with how the situation was handled. Clearly the problem was not what I had been told on different occasions. I also let them know that for the meantime I would be playing elsewhere.

Here is the main reason i will be playing elsewhere for the timebeing.

I never got a response. Not even a short apology.
Clearly they are just content with the fact that they have the most popular site. No wonder their games are tighter than at party and other sites. They offer fewer bonuses for new players and to bring back old players and they did not even send me an opology when I told them I'd start playing elsewhere.

I have been playing at party the last 2 weeks. The customer support has been fantastic and they have made me feel very welcome as a new player. Plus the games are better clearly because they attract the more recreational players.

[DougDuke]

Is there any reason to believe that the entire outfit is square with such a glaring flaw such as this? Kinda reminds me of the Clinton regime, rot from the head down.

[Punker]

I find their support to be very faceless and cold; like they know they have the majority and if they lose someone here or there, who cares.

I recently exchanged some emails with them regarding their shuffle. At the end of it, I was reasonably satisfied; imagine my surprise a week later when attempting a cashout to find that my account transactions had been frozen as "Due to recent comments you have made about the integrity of our site, it has been decided that all your transactions will be handled manually." Suffice it to say, I had one transaction for them to handle at that point: cash me out and close my account.

[Instinct]

This ordeal just made me think about a few things.

Their site makes the most money, by far.

They have no freerolls. They have no promos for new players like a welcome tourny.

Their wsop promo rewards bad play and will probably generate a huge increase in rake revenue for them anyway ( It does not necessarily reward those that are their loyal customers )

They have no rewards program. They give very little back to their users.

They have not opened micro micro limit ring games which might introduce new players who are only playing for fun right now.

Sure i will admit that generally their customer service responses are polite but shouldn't they be with any business. It is the extra things IMO that brings in the new players and keeps those that are already playing there. Where is their 24 hour live support or a phone number to call?

Where are their multiplayer tournaments?


Sure they are the most popular and probably IMO have the best software, but they better be carefull. From what I have seen Games are better on other sites IMO because they obviously are not forward thinking enough to see that it makes sense to reward players more and bring in new players.

For the time being I'll be playing more at partypoker ( I'm just starting to get used to their software after playing on Paradise for the last couple of years )

See you guys at party!

Instinct

[Instinct]

Punker. Your experience reiterates my point.

They clearly have lost you as a customer ( or maybe they forget that is exactly what you are )

[lorinda]

Clearly they lied that they were only able to do cashouts once per day.

Even by your account, that is not what they said.

The automated cashout does only kick off once per day, clearly they assumed that you expected immediate cashout and decided to wait until then to see if it worked or not.

Someone then had the good sense to check your account when they had a spare moment rather than going for a tea break.

As the rather less useful poster mentioned (We've had the argument about emailing sites critisising their shuffle before) they CAN do it manually.

Interesting that one of you didn't want this and one of you did, and you both left.

The customer support has been fantastic

So that's who they were talking to whilst the rest of the world was trying to get through.


I rarely play at Paradise now because the games are stronger there than at other sites, but their support is only equalled by Stars. (and Ultimate if Emma is working at the time you send your mail)
Anyone who finds different is either unlucky (as your post seems to show in your case) or a moron (as per emailing the support saying their shuffle is rigged, when there is so much evidence to the contrary)

Remind me next time I visit Punker in his aquarium to tell him that his sea creatures look unhealthy and that he is obviously feeding them the wrong things.

Lori

[Punker]

One note; I didn't so much object to their making my transactions manual or the reasons they did so, as I did the way I found out about it; I would have expected an email to advise me of this fact in advance of me happening to find it out as a result of a cashout.

What aquarium?

[lorinda]

Point noted, please accept a semi-apology.

Lori

[beernutz]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Due to recent comments you have made about the integrity of our site

[/ QUOTE ]
I am curious, did you make these comments in an email directly to paradise support or publically at the tables?

Disclaimer: I rarely play at Paradise and could give a shitoke whether anyone else does or not.

[Instinct]

Lorinda - You must have misunderstood. "The customer support has been fantastic" was directed to my recent experience playing at Partypoker, not paradise.

[Punker]

Directly to support.

[lorinda]

I understood, I just find it impossible to believe that Party have suddenly managed to create a support crew of use.

You might enjoy a search of this forum over about 6 months for some of the live help transcripts.

Lori

[RollaJ]

The only good things paradise has from what I can see is:
The best software
Most reliable servers
Most game choices
Most competition 24/7

[GrannyMae]

oh, what a nice pretty leaf as your picture rollaj.

my very polite next door neighbors have alot of those. is that some kind of fern?


http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/smoking/rauch04.gif

[Instinct]

LORINDA:

All I can really go on is the experience that I have had. I only recently started playing anywhere other than Paradise ( other than pokerstars for the multiway tournies, )

In no way am I saying that everything about Party has been a 10, but my experience with dealing with their support has been great. In fact I had my first cash out today ... it was in my account within 12hrs.

At this early stage of my online poker career/hobby, I am just more inclined at this moment to try other sites. I also enjoy having more accounts and hence more table selection anyway. To be honest I just was very dissapointed about how the situation was handled and made me
consider playing there less. The fact that I told them this and heard no response made me realize that there may be a real reason why the games appear to be softer elsewhere. Sure they have the best software and attract alot of the more serious players but there is alot more to it than that. IMO they could be way ahead of the other sites in terms of traffic and should be attracting alot of the new players to their site. It seems like alot of these players are not going there. ( I played at ultimatebet for the first time this weekend ... their software does not match up even close to Paradise, but I will go back since they clearly are trying to attract new players to their site ) In fact Paradise really should be bigger and even more successfull than they already are.

Maybe it helps us all in the long run if the " #1 poker site "doesn't seem have it all together on the marketing / business relations front.

Other sites will just continue to create better incentives for new players looking at online poker, which is great for all the bonus whores /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[RollaJ]

Seems to be some new fad, all the kids at the public school near me have these leaves and are always buying/selling them and trading them. Must be like baseball cards for the kids these days. Orange must be very collectible, I saw one kid trade 3 Regs for 1 orange. If interested there is a hobby magazine/price guide at www.hightimes.com (http://www.hightimes.com) /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Hung]

I played at ultimatebet for the first time this weekend ... their software does not match up even close to Paradise

I hear this quite often that the software of paradise or stars is better then anywhere else. What you do mean with this? Is it faster? Good looking? Userfriendly interface? First time that I played at UB I thought the tables were weird. You got those empty seats. Stars has little pictures, so it's easy to recognize players.
They all have advantages. It's more a personal opinion. Some like BMW and some like Mercedes. I like party, because they have persons sitting at the table.
The game industry is far ahead. I don't understand why nobody is making a 3D pokerroom. Where you can walk arround like a real RPG game. You can take a seat and talk to people arround you. Wouldn't that be great? It's like you walk arround in a casino. A virutal world.

[justus]

It really is interesting how and why people like different cardrooms. The faces that you folks get to know at pokerstars or party, I can't remember which, drive me crazy. As a result I don't play there. I don't need ferns in the room with me either. I can remember the names well enough. I just want the games to run smoothly. In the poker room this should be first priority. Still I state: The more online poker rooms the better. Choices are a great thing. Vegas wasn't built on one poker room. Well not on any poker room, But that's another story.

[Instinct]

Ok on ultimatebet sotware:

Often the cashier doesn't log in and often the info is actually incorrect.

The stats don't always work.

Dissconnection problems sometimes.

The site seems slow sometimes.

Doesn't seem to be as user friendly as others. eg the advertise their multitable tournies and I didn't see them.

Sometimes when you type in notes, the software seems to jump and it appears in the chat box.

The main menue info seems to lag what is actually taking place on each table.

When you are on multiple waiting lists it doesn't show where you stand when you are viewing the main menue.

All this stuff to me seems to be a little unprofessonal. If I was playing for fun no big deal but since its my $$$ I'd have more confidence if things always ran smoothly

However they are clearly doing something that Paradise is not and that is attracting new players. I made my initial deposit, collected my bonus, cashed out my original amount, and plan to play there again because the games seem decent. fwiw my cashout took less than 6 hrs.

I could go on about my opinion of other sites but I won't. Time for bed after 6 hrs playing at party. Great game their tonight. I made a little in a 5-10 game that had an average pot close to $100 for over 2 hrs.

Basically at paradise, the chairs are more comfy, the dealers are better, the floorperson seems like he knows what he is doing, but when they piss you off and you look around you remember I'm looking for a bit more than that when I want a good poker game!!

[Hung]

You're right. All what you said is correct.
I play too small to look at those things. Those are details for me. If the cashier does not work i'll log in another time. It's pretty annoying when you're playing multible tables and the switch all the time. The other day I was playing hi lo and a guy folded on the river. He could have checked. But he accidenty folded because the tables switched too fast. he lost a $10 pot. I had nothing, he had a flush K high. He should consider to buy a second screen. it will make it much easier. Another feature that is pretty cool is that you can minimize your table. So people will low resolutions or small screens can play several tables when they minimize their table.
I don't undestand why ub does not let us play more then 3 tables. At stars you can play up to 5 tables.

[GrannyMae]

If interested there is a hobby magazine/price guide at www.hightimes.com (http://www.hightimes.com)


OMG, is that magazine still being printed?!?!?

Granny used to love the centerfolds. I was a horticultural specialist in college until the smell of these pretty ferns permeated the RA's room.

i wonder why they needed to call them nasty university coppers. i just grew them for the fun of it.
(freakin narco commies!!)

http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/smoking/rauch16.gif

[RollaJ]

Granny, Im with you, cant people just enjoy the beauty of this wonderful plant without jumping to conclusions? Cops are just so judgemental

[GrannyMae]

I don't undestand why ub does not let us play more then 3 tables. At stars you can play up to 5 tables.


you know i love ya baby, but listen to me on this.

if you are alone (don't have someone there helping you), you will never be a winner by playing 5 tables at once. you may be able to handle it, but you can't possibly be maximizing your earn.

i know you are a smart kid hung, but the is a limit to how much info the human brain can process. ideally you should always be playing one table only, but if that does not get you the "fix" you need, limit it to two tables.

the first thing i do when i sit at a table at paradise is look at similar limits to see if the opponents at my table are playing 2 games. if they are, i keep their second game open, and always make fancy plays and steals when they they are involved in bigger pots at other tables.

if i could find someone playing 5 tables, i will clean them out, and put them on tilt.

the reasons the sites don't want you playing unlimited tables is that it slows the game down, and therefore reduces the rake. paradise does it right IMO by allowing you to play only 2 tables. this is optimal for both the player AND the site.

but if you ever sit at one of MY games, i hope you have 3 monitors and 10 games in action. just don't slow things down.

but if you do slow things down, i will incessantly type zzzzzzzz in the chat box, and you will feel obligated to defend yourself.

as you are trying to type your defense in the chatbox, i hope all your screens "POP" at the same time, and you misclick your action buttons. then i will type zzzzzz again, and that will set you over the edge, and you will officially be tilting.


stop by and play, ANYTIME

i'll buy ya some ice cream after i bust ya.

http://e4u.consoleradar.com/happy/1146.gif

[Hung]

Maybe I'm used to the slow games at UB. You'll never have to type zzzzzz when you play with me. I'm always first to react. But maybe that's because the games at UB are slow. I'm still bored when I play 3 tables. When I play three full tables it still takes time before it's my turn. I play rather tight, so most of the time I'm only seeing one flop at the time. But you're right Granny. It's better to play one table because it's easier to spot the fish or weak players. When playing multible tables you only play your cards. You wont spot the person who's tilting because he lost a big pot.
I just saw a guy lose with AA. He flop A8K. 3 players. They bet really hard. Turn is an 8. Both keep betting like crazy. River is a rag. The other guy had 88. AA beaten... Must have hurt.

[RollaJ]

The only way I would ever be able to play 3 or more tables is if I played on 2 different sites, otherwise I get confused as to how different people play. At party I screwed up because that a-hole kid in the upper left hand corner with the orange shirt kept raising before the flop, so I finally played back at him, but I was on the wrong table playing against his twin brother who was wearing the same outfit /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif

[jek187]

ideally you should always be playing one table only, but if that does not get you the "fix" you need, limit it to two tables.

So, what you're saying here is that if you play more than 2 tables at once, you won't have time to make 1,500+ posts each with it's own perfect smiley?

[GrannyMae]

So, what you're saying here is that if you play more than 2 tables at once, you won't have time to make 1,500+ posts each with it's own perfect smiley?


i will allow this obvious disrespect of Granny to go unanswered, seeing as though you recognized the fact that the smileys are "perfect" for the post.


http://e4u.consoleradar.com/fingers/fing36.gif