Too weak or overplayed?

[FatLoser]

Loose £2-4 online game.

I'm in the cutoff-2 seat and dealt 8h 7h.

Three limpers to me so I decide to limp along. Button limps too and SB raise. BB and all limpers call to me, I decide to reraise and possibly get rid of the button, it succeeds and now SB caps it, everyone calls.

Six players to the flop for four bets each, 25sb in the pot.

Flop comes 6h Kc Td .

SB check as does everyone including me.

Turn comes 9s.

Very nice card for me. Everyone check to player to my right who bets, I raise and now SB decides to threebet, everyone including original bettor folds and I cap the betting.

River comes 7d.

He bet out again, I just call (too weak?)

Thoughts, Comments?

FatLoser

[Bubmack]

Wow,

What were you worried about? The player having j,8 or QJ? Extremely unlikely given that he capped the action preflop. He is probably working a set of kings and has put you on a hand like AK.

your 3 bet preflop was very dubious. Pushing out the button is not as big of a deal when you are playing a hand that plays well against a large field and plays well when its cheap. Your hand won't win often, but when it does it is very strong and rarely second best.

So the turn card saved you and then you didn't realize your full win. If your going to play loose and aggressive - you should at least take advantage of the times that the deck runs over you and receive the benefit of the increased action you will get.

Bubs

[glen]

Three limpers to me so I decide to limp along. Button limps too and SB raise. BB and all limpers call to me, I decide to reraise and possibly get rid of the button, it succeeds and now SB caps it, everyone calls.

Why on earth do you want to want to get rid of the button? The sb has a monster and you want a lot of players and to see the flop for cheap. His pre-flop play and turn play do not imply diamond or QJ. Raise the river.

[elysium]

hi fat
that was o.k.; unfortunately looks like you're beat, but your position is saving you a bet here. from first, you'd also bet and call any raise heads up.

yea fat, when they go for the check-raise after getting checked around, whew...they're pretty strong. your up against the nut full i'm afraid. however, your holding is so strong, that they'll have to show you. if caught between two solid players and they are raising and reraising, well you better be sure they're solid, but you then can consider a fold. but if you can't decide right away, then you still must call.

[glen]

"yea fat, when they go for the check-raise after getting checked around, whew...they're pretty strong. your up against the nut full i'm afraid."

The "nut full?" there is no pair on the board in this hand.

"however, your holding is so strong, that they'll have to show you. if caught between two solid players and they are raising and reraising, well you better be sure they're solid, but you then can consider a fold."

Are you responding to a different post again, Ely? He has the nuts on the turn, and he wasn't trapped between solid players, getting raised and re-raised. . .

[bernie]

preflop...im sure your chips left in your stack wanted to mutiny on ya and bat ya with a chiprack.

but, what the hell, gotta live sometimes... /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

river...id raise here. id be very suprised if he played this way with a hand that beats you here. if he fold, you get the added benefit of making him wonder what you had.

b

[FatLoser]

I guess I don't really know why I posted this, maybe because I wanted to get it confirmed that I should raise the river. Yes, you read right, I would normally raise the river here since he cant possibly have QJ or J8 due to his raise and reraise from SB preflop unless he's a drunk black jack player.

This was just one of those pots when you get a feeling something is very, very wrong. Sure enough I was showed QJ when I called.

While I agree partially with all of you who said "raise the river" I still think there is need for concern when he bets the river after that kind of turn action. What is he supposed to put me on? KK is really the only hand that makes any sense and that's what he was "supposed" to have.

Are you following me? Say you would have had KK in his spot, would you bet the river after that turn action? I sure wouldn't since I have a hard time picturing KK as the best hand after this turn action.I would definitely check-call but not bet out since the only hand I beat are other trips and those are not very likely IMO.

Now, since this is £2-4 i suppose everything is possible, but still.

As for my threebet preflop to lose the button / conceal my hand I don't think that's a bad play. Everyone seem to think losing the button is a bad thing but I don',t since it enables me the possibiblity to take a free card later if I get the chance.

FatLoser

[Bubmack]

I dont think that losing the button was bad, but I dont think it was worth an additional bet as a severe ubderdog.

good read however on the river.

good luck,

bubs

[elysium]

hi fat
i think i got this post and astros mixed up, i mean the nut straight here, not the nut full (lol). whew, too many posts. but he wasn't perturbed by the check-around, and because i know the results now and know the board didn't pair,...hmmm, i had him on top trips fat. and in light of the board not pairing, i don't think there isw anything you could have done here. i should have looked at the post again; but even against the boat possibility (although one didn't exist here) yea, you still must call. he gonna have to show you on this one. you played great.

[Louie Landale]

It sure looks like he slow-played the flop, indicating you should raise again on the river. It sure looks like he's got the nuts on the river, suggesting you should only call. After capping the pre-flop, it sure does NOT look like he flopped a straight draw since he's almost sure to bet it, incidating you should raise the river.

So you are in that never-never land where there is no reasonable hand the opponent can have, based on the way he played it. Usually that means statistically does NOT have the nuts and you should raise with a near-nut hand, since there are LOTS more weak hands available for him to play unreasonably and only a couple nut hands available for him to do likewise. However, your knowledge of the opponent can override anything. Some players are routuinely tricky early and rourinely straight-forward late. Against these players, presume their turn and river actions accuratly reflect the strength of their hands.

Tough situation to be in.

- Louie