this river made me think

[Roy6]

OK, if you look at this hand it's really standard I think.
Flush draw came, 3 overcards, and even 45 got there. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
So it's a standard fold.

Or mabye not? Villain is mainly loose passive (60% VPIP), but he bluffs occaisionally.

But what hand bets this river? I played a hand like I had something very weak or a flush draw. He's passive so when the flush hits he'd be happy to check with a pair so he doesn't need to call a raise. (he's a donk so probably doesn't know what valuebetting is but that means he might also not notice my play can easily hide a flush draw)

If he has a flush (but it's a tiny chance) the river bet is good, because I'm probably checking behind with QQ, etc.

He obviously peels on the flop with a Q and a J and now it's a great oppertunity for them to bluffbet, right?

So, to sum it up he's more likely to bet with a worse hand and check with a better hand here (because the flush is less likely than a lone Q or J)?
Do we call then the river? Also taking into account he's a donk.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.16 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (3.16 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.16 BB

[Roy6]

bump
anyt thoughts?

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
He's passive so when the flush hits he'd be happy to check with a pair so he doesn't need to call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Was that your specific read? IMO most anyone will bet an A, K, or T here, even passives.

[Roy6]

my specific read was that he usually just check-called top pair on the flop against the preflop raiser even if it was a very favorable flop for him (like he had a pair of queens on a Q86 flop)

[jba]

I think I just bet the turn for a free showdown.

[obsidian]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I just bet the turn for a free showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]
My standard in these situations is to bet the turn, fold to a raise, and take the free showdown if he calls the turn. I am not a big fan of checking through the turn and folding the river heads up.

[ZZZ]

This is a turn bet for me, because there's some chance I'm ahead of a gutshot, I can't really improve, so it's a super easy fold to a check raise, some chance (maybe not against this guy albeit) of getting a better hand to fold, and it makes the river easier to play. QQ would be a check behind.

I like the fold on the river given that you checked though.

ZZZ

[smartalecc5]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I just bet the turn for a free showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

[witeknite]

I tend to use the "When to induce a bluff/When to stop a bluff" mentality from TOP. If op. bluffs to much, induce him to bluff more. If op. does not bluff enough, play in such a way to stop him bluffing. I apply this to wether to bet again on the Turn or not. If he is passive, you bet the turn and if he leads the river, it's an easy fold. If he is aggro then you can check behind as long as you call almost always. If you do something that could induce a bluff, you have to call it. With this hand, I think you must bet the turn for this very reason. You put yourself in spot where you could have pushed him to the correct bluffing frequency.

WiteKnite