View Full Version : Who loses all this money?
Degen
08-28-2005, 08:29 PM
Google employees? Saudi teenagers? PartyPoker employees? College students who aren't good? (this last one would make me very, very sad /images/graemlins/frown.gif )
I think it's very stake dependent. Pretty sure the low stakes are mainly working class single men.
bones
08-28-2005, 08:35 PM
Angry bloggers.
Google employees would not be my first guess.
Oh, also very serious pot heads, although these people also make a lot of money.
Degen
08-28-2005, 08:40 PM
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Angry bloggers.
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/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Maulik
08-28-2005, 08:42 PM
me, duh.
Degen
08-28-2005, 08:42 PM
ok so are we skimming from recreational players or ruining lives (on average...)?
Maulik
08-28-2005, 08:47 PM
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ok so are we skimming from recreational players or ruining lives (on average...)?
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this has to be recreational players. if everyone was ruining their life it couldn't be as popular as it is or at least continuing growing for 2 years since Moneymaker. bad news spreads like the plague.
in your local cardroom how often was it your experience that so & so couldn't afford to lose $xxxxxxx where x can be any integer?
The Yugoslavian
08-28-2005, 08:52 PM
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ok so are we skimming from recreational players or ruining lives (on average...)?
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Dude....the $$ the poker pros take from gamblers per year is literally nothing compared to what vegas takes in per year.
In a way your enabling addicts...but there is a HUGE industry already in place sanctioned by basically everyone already doing so.
And poker pros work damn hard to scrape out a grinding wage.....seriously. Only a few really just completely kill and rape and pillage.
Yugoslav
[ QUOTE ]
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ok so are we skimming from recreational players or ruining lives (on average...)?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude....the $$ the poker pros take from gamblers per year is literally nothing compared to what vegas takes in per year.
In a way your enabling addicts...but there is a HUGE industry already in place sanctioned by basically everyone already doing so.
And poker pros work damn hard to scrape out a grinding wage.....seriously. Only a few really just completely kill and rape and pillage.
Yugoslav
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So basically what you're saying is....not only are we evil, but most of us suck even at that?
The Yugoslavian
08-28-2005, 08:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
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ok so are we skimming from recreational players or ruining lives (on average...)?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude....the $$ the poker pros take from gamblers per year is literally nothing compared to what vegas takes in per year.
In a way your enabling addicts...but there is a HUGE industry already in place sanctioned by basically everyone already doing so.
And poker pros work damn hard to scrape out a grinding wage.....seriously. Only a few really just completely kill and rape and pillage.
Yugoslav
[/ QUOTE ]
So basically what you're saying is....not only are we evil, but most of us suck even at that?
[/ QUOTE ]
Except you....your the exception, /images/graemlins/frown.gif.
So like 5 more days bitch!!! Ship it!!!
I will show you just how bad I am at pwning, /images/graemlins/blush.gif.
Yugoslav
Degen
08-28-2005, 08:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ok so are we skimming from recreational players or ruining lives (on average...)?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude....the $$ the poker pros take from gamblers per year is literally nothing compared to what vegas takes in per year.
In a way your enabling addicts...but there is a HUGE industry already in place sanctioned by basically everyone already doing so.
And poker pros work damn hard to scrape out a grinding wage.....seriously. Only a few really just completely kill and rape and pillage.
Yugoslav
[/ QUOTE ]
ya i almost feel better, but where is the pinup dude? come on!! THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT SOME HOT RUSSIAN CHIC!!!
edited for spelling
The Yugoslavian
08-28-2005, 09:00 PM
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ya i almost feel better, but where is the pinup dude? come on!! THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT SOME HOT RUSSIAN CHIC!!!
edited for spelling
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Absolutely correct. My bad....I should just /endlife.
Instead I will post this:
http://people.freenet.de/digispace03/scanx9/originalimages/digi_S835_Poppy_Montgomery.jpg
Yugoslav
Degen
08-28-2005, 09:01 PM
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ya i almost feel better, but where is the pinup dude? come on!! THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT SOME HOT RUSSIAN CHIC!!!
edited for spelling
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely correct. My bad....I should just /endlife.
Instead I will post this:
http://people.freenet.de/digispace03/scanx9/originalimages/digi_S835_Poppy_Montgomery.jpg
Yugoslav
[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif
This question facinates me. Keep in mind, the following is all a bunch of BS generalization, but I don't think the question was that serious, so here's my opinion.
I live near a casino and get to see the same crowd again and again. It seems to be mostly 30-40 something married men, 20 something nerds, and old farts (sorry I consider anyone over 50 an old fart.. lol.. no offense-- I actually like the old guys the best). I think most of these losing players play because they don't know what else to do with their time. They don't really like TV and reading books is boring. haha.. well, that negative generalization accounts for most (about 75%) of the crowd. Some of the crowd likes to play to keep them occupied while they drink, smoke, and watch sports. That's cool, but I can't imagine they're winning. Thos are the people going for pure entertainment. There's also a very small percentage that plays for more logical reasons. Some are winners, but many are not. I imagine online, there are also a lot of underage players and less old people. The cool thing about a casino is you get more of a feel for the type of people you're playing against.
Who's losing the money? Easy-Everyone who's not winning. I really think the ammount of people who are winning is much smaller than most people would guess. We'd probably overestimate this figure because most people are afraid to say they lose. It's like doing a poll on average penis size. It's a mystery. It's private statistic, and most people lie. And even if you could research it, there are usually sample size issues. I believe most players go on small winning streaks and attibute it to skill. Most people go on losing streaks and 1) lie about how much they're losing 2) blame the losses on inferior play of their opponents. Nobody would play if they didn't feel they were better than their opponents, but not many people really can prove exactly why their play is superior. The justification for their prowess is usually no reason other than ego, and often because "i read it somewhere".. Actually there are people who read a LOT who understand some concepts but still suck. I think we've all been there at some point.
I've found myself guilty of all these fallicies, and yes, have caught myself lying about losses and justifying shitty play. The majority of college students do not have the proper psychology to improve their poker game. it's more of a pissing contest... bragging/lying about win rates.. etc..
So in summary, assuming all losing players are losing at similar rates, what demographic is losing the most money? Well, that would be the degenerate dorks who play the game because they have no lifes. Because most poker players play for that reason.
adanthar
08-28-2005, 09:28 PM
In a post in the Zoo a while ago, someone said they ran into Lee Jones at the WSOP and asked him how many people were winners for the year at PS. Turns out the number's roughly...8%. Ninety two percent of online players either lose money or at least don't win any. (It's probably less than that in the SNG world but I can't imagine it's by all that much.)
Who those people are...I dunno. I've talked to a pro European basketball player (he really was - I looked him up later and it's not anyone famous), lots of doctors, lawyers, other professionals etc. and a billion college students while at the tables. Some were winners or at least didn't play bad (the basketball guy beat me HU). Most were not. I have the feeling that for most people, it's just a hobby, and that the guys who tilt easily might be playing for a substantial chunk of their net worth, but that's just a hypothesis.
I do know that here in SNG and MTT land we have far less ethical concerns to deal with than in cash games and that I'd be pretty unhappy in the long run if I played cash games full time, instead. It's one of the things keeping me from making the switch.
gumpzilla
08-28-2005, 09:48 PM
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I do know that here in SNG and MTT land we have far less ethical concerns to deal with than in cash games and that I'd be pretty unhappy in the long run if I played cash games full time, instead. It's one of the things keeping me from making the switch.
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Just because circumstances usually prevent people from having a significant percentage of their assets on the table at a given time?
adanthar
08-28-2005, 10:01 PM
That's part of it, but it's more that I see a tournament (especially an MTT) as inherently more of a contest of skill than a cash game because everyone is aware of what it means. If I put down the money to play a big event, it's no different than an NCAA betting pool - most people will be in it to have fun, but they all know that the guys that follow college ball have a bigger chance of winning and generally won't spend money they don't have.
In a cash game, you make a lot of money off drunk guys that don't know what they're doing or degenerate gamblers. I played lower limits when I was learning the game and did OK, but if I went back to it (I kinda want to sometimes) I'd have to go up to 15/30 or so and at that point you start seeing more of those types. For me, that's bad karma.
edit: I make no pretense of being any kind of ethicist - that's just the way I think about it. YMMV.
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ok so are we skimming from recreational players or ruining lives (on average...)?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude....the $$ the poker pros take from gamblers per year is literally nothing compared to what vegas takes in per year.
In a way your enabling addicts...but there is a HUGE industry already in place sanctioned by basically everyone already doing so.
And poker pros work damn hard to scrape out a grinding wage.....seriously. Only a few really just completely kill and rape and pillage.
Yugoslav
[/ QUOTE ]
So basically what you're saying is....not only are we evil, but most of us suck even at that?
[/ QUOTE ]
Except you....your the exception, /images/graemlins/frown.gif.
So like 5 more days bitch!!! Ship it!!!
I will show you just how bad I am at pwning, /images/graemlins/blush.gif.
Yugoslav
[/ QUOTE ]
You're right, I'm pretty good at being evil. If only I were also good at poker... /images/graemlins/frown.gif
btw you better beat Irie...I want an easy 2nd round match. /images/graemlins/blush.gif
TheNoodleMan
08-28-2005, 10:20 PM
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In a post in the Zoo a while ago, someone said they ran into Lee Jones at the WSOP and asked him how many people were winners for the year at PS. Turns out the number's roughly...8%.
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I think this was in a steve rosenbloom column at ESPN.com if anyone is interested.
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Google employees? Saudi teenagers? PartyPoker employees? College students who aren't good? (this last one would make me very, very sad /images/graemlins/frown.gif )
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The important thing is, not me, and hopefully not you either.
Newt_Buggs
08-29-2005, 03:08 AM
This is something that really interests me as well
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That's part of it, but it's more that I see a tournament (especially an MTT) as inherently more of a contest of skill than a cash game because everyone is aware of what it means. If I put down the money to play a big event, it's no different than an NCAA betting pool - most people will be in it to have fun, but they all know that the guys that follow college ball have a bigger chance of winning and generally won't spend money they don't have.
In a cash game, you make a lot of money off drunk guys that don't know what they're doing or degenerate gamblers. I played lower limits when I was learning the game and did OK, but if I went back to it (I kinda want to sometimes) I'd have to go up to 15/30 or so and at that point you start seeing more of those types. For me, that's bad karma.
edit: I make no pretense of being any kind of ethicist - that's just the way I think about it. YMMV.
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maybe, but if some of these $215 fish play regularly they are either very rich or its hurting their well being. If someone wants the most gamble/excitement they will probably sit down in a $215 and can loose a lot of money in very little time.
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This is something that really interests me as well
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That's part of it, but it's more that I see a tournament (especially an MTT) as inherently more of a contest of skill than a cash game because everyone is aware of what it means. If I put down the money to play a big event, it's no different than an NCAA betting pool - most people will be in it to have fun, but they all know that the guys that follow college ball have a bigger chance of winning and generally won't spend money they don't have.
In a cash game, you make a lot of money off drunk guys that don't know what they're doing or degenerate gamblers. I played lower limits when I was learning the game and did OK, but if I went back to it (I kinda want to sometimes) I'd have to go up to 15/30 or so and at that point you start seeing more of those types. For me, that's bad karma.
edit: I make no pretense of being any kind of ethicist - that's just the way I think about it. YMMV.
[/ QUOTE ]
maybe, but if some of these $215 fish play regularly they are either very rich or its hurting their well being. If someone wants the most gamble/excitement they will probably sit down in a $215 and can loose a lot of money in very little time.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know a guy in his 50s who made tons of money when he was younger and now helps support high-stakes tourny players. He's not playing online though. I suspect that online players are more likely to be gambling addicts and less likely to be rich people having fun because much of the social interaction is gone.
iMsoLucky0
08-29-2005, 04:04 AM
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ok so are we skimming from recreational players or ruining lives (on average...)?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude....the $$ the poker pros take from gamblers per year is literally nothing compared to what vegas takes in per year.
In a way your enabling addicts...but there is a HUGE industry already in place sanctioned by basically everyone already doing so.
And poker pros work damn hard to scrape out a grinding wage.....seriously. Only a few really just completely kill and rape and pillage.
Yugoslav
[/ QUOTE ]
So basically what you're saying is....not only are we evil, but most of us suck even at that?
[/ QUOTE ]
Except you....your the exception, /images/graemlins/frown.gif.
So like 5 more days bitch!!! Ship it!!!
I will show you just how bad I am at pwning, /images/graemlins/blush.gif.
Yugoslav
[/ QUOTE ]
You're right, I'm pretty good at being evil. If only I were also good at poker... /images/graemlins/frown.gif
btw you better beat Irie...I want an easy 2nd round match. /images/graemlins/blush.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you consider Irie to be an easy match? That's a weird line of thought. I thought you'd be happy to be guaranteed a victory in your first losers round match vs Yugo, but I guess not.
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
ok so are we skimming from recreational players or ruining lives (on average...)?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude....the $$ the poker pros take from gamblers per year is literally nothing compared to what vegas takes in per year.
In a way your enabling addicts...but there is a HUGE industry already in place sanctioned by basically everyone already doing so.
And poker pros work damn hard to scrape out a grinding wage.....seriously. Only a few really just completely kill and rape and pillage.
Yugoslav
[/ QUOTE ]
So basically what you're saying is....not only are we evil, but most of us suck even at that?
[/ QUOTE ]
Except you....your the exception, /images/graemlins/frown.gif.
So like 5 more days bitch!!! Ship it!!!
I will show you just how bad I am at pwning, /images/graemlins/blush.gif.
Yugoslav
[/ QUOTE ]
You're right, I'm pretty good at being evil. If only I were also good at poker... /images/graemlins/frown.gif
btw you better beat Irie...I want an easy 2nd round match. /images/graemlins/blush.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you consider Irie to be an easy match? That's a weird line of thought. I thought you'd be happy to be guaranteed a victory in your first losers round match vs Yugo, but I guess not.
[/ QUOTE ]
See, the unfortunate (for me) difference between us is that you're much more likely to be able to back up your smack talk. Oh well more unlikely things have happened. And SOME crazy dude seems to think I'm better than 40% to beat you.
citanul
08-29-2005, 09:07 AM
say a fish at the 200s has a -20% roi, maybe a -30% roi.
say a fish that plays a lot of 200s has a -10% roi.
i think these are reasonable.
those two fish will probably lose about the same each month, if not, it's likely the one who loses slower loses more just because they play more.
chalk that guy up for losing like, 5k a month? while he's around? such a person does not need to be filthy rich.
amongst other things, such a person could be a winner at some other game. however, 5k just isn't that much, especially when you consider that many losers will stop over time.
it is difficult to be so bad you lose more than 30%.
players bad enough to lose around 30% likely don't play very often at all, and also don't wind up with very long careers.
i'm sure that there are a fair number of gambling addicts losing money they can't afford to lose.
to justify this, i give a fair amount to various charities.
citanul
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