Jumping into Stud/8 cash games, but I've got some structure questions

[Aaron W.]

From what I recall, the $.50/1 game at Party Poker has an absurdly high ante ($.25). The ante at $1/2 is also a bit high ($.25). The obvious adjustment seems to be to play faster and looser. With such high antes, will I be picking up a lot of bad habits that I'll need to un-learn as I start to move up in stakes? If so, what are they (so I can be consciously aware of them as I play)?

Are there any general tips for playing these super-large ante games?

[grb137]

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From what I recall, the $.50/1 game at Party Poker has an absurdly high ante ($.25). The ante at $1/2 is also a bit high ($.25). The obvious adjustment seems to be to play faster and looser. With such high antes, will I be picking up a lot of bad habits that I'll need to un-learn as I start to move up in stakes? If so, what are they (so I can be consciously aware of them as I play)?

Are there any general tips for playing these super-large ante games?

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Aaron -

I would temper your notion of "faster and loose" -- think of it as being "slightly less tight." As for general tips - call more small pairs for the bring in (they still need to be live though!), and be more open playing lower end str8 draws and flush draws (again, they still need to be live).

In general, you should avoid doing anything in poker based on habit, no matter what the stakes might be. Being "slightly less tight" in lower limit games is good as long as you understand why you are doing so. When you move up, those conditions won't exist, and your poker acumen will realize it and make you turn up your nose at hands you might gladly at a lower stakes, looser table.

[Andy B]

Don't loosen up too much at all. Because the game is so loose, the bottom line is that you're going to have to show down the best hand in order to win.

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With such high antes, will I be picking up a lot of bad habits that I'll need to un-learn as I start to move up in stakes?

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Possibly. I don't think you should loosen up on third much, if at all. Because of the pot size, however, you're going to have to be somewhat looser on the later streets. You might find yourself taking a card off in a given situation in the $.50/1.00 game, and that same call will be totally wrong in a bigger game after the same action. This will be more of an issue on fourth street than any other, because the bet relative to the size of the pot is much smaller.

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Are there any general tips for playing these super-large ante games?

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Yeah, don't. Play $1/2 if at all possible.

[Andy B]

Good post.

[Aaron W.]

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From what I recall, the $.50/1 game at Party Poker has an absurdly high ante ($.25). The ante at $1/2 is also a bit high ($.25). The obvious adjustment seems to be to play faster and looser. With such high antes, will I be picking up a lot of bad habits that I'll need to un-learn as I start to move up in stakes? If so, what are they (so I can be consciously aware of them as I play)?

Are there any general tips for playing these super-large ante games?

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Aaron -

I would temper your notion of "faster and loose" -- think of it as being "slightly less tight." As for general tips - call more small pairs for the bring in (they still need to be live though!), and be more open playing lower end str8 draws and flush draws (again, they still need to be live).

In general, you should avoid doing anything in poker based on habit, no matter what the stakes might be. Being "slightly less tight" in lower limit games is good as long as you understand why you are doing so. When you move up, those conditions won't exist, and your poker acumen will realize it and make you turn up your nose at hands you might gladly at a lower stakes, looser table.

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I like the change in terminology that you suggested. It clicks with me better than the one I used.

The bolded part above is the part of the learning curve which I'm trying to scope out ahead of time. I've read the 2+2 standards (TOP, 7CSAP, HLSAP - or however those are acronym...ized). I'm worried about 'habits' because the mistakes I'm going to end up making are places where my judgment is flawed. A lot of judgment will be built up from experience (plus knowledge), and if I develop a lot of experience with very bad players, I could very well end up winning while still making bad errors. These are the ones that I'm really concerned about.

The recent discussion of high pairs (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=3196970&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) illustrates the sorts of mistakes that I'm trying my best to avoid. My understanding of a situation was apparently quite flawed, but it's the sort of "habitual" mistake that might take a long time to figure out against very bad opposition.

The bulk of my experience is Hold'em. There, leaks only exist because you don't know they exist. I have no reason to believe that this principle changes as I switch games.

[kyleb]

Not playing $1/2 Stud is a good idea. I refused to play on Party because of the antes. Stars still has good antes for low limits, though.

[Wolffink]

I just got my Empire account and I was in Stud/8 heaven. Lots of games, lots of peoples seeing 4th street. There's opportunity here!

And I realized the same thing. At Absolute at .50/$1 the ante is .02 !! At Party it's .25! Geezus.

I like to play tight, good starting hands. Even if you loosen up, you won't feel good being raised in a six-player pot. Zee says that when the Stud 8 game is loose, you have to tighten up. Yet here the ante is high, as you say.

I don't know the solution for .50/$1. I suspect it's as others have said. Perhaps play more borderline hands late or if the pot isn't getting raised.

There's a solution. At $2/$4 the ante is still .25.