Took a bad streak, how do you justify playing to other people?

[davet]

I am a winning player. I play many hours a week, and it is safe to say that the vast majority of my income comes from poker.

But I just took a really bad streak, and went broke. In reality, the situation is not entirely bad. Any poker player knows the risks involved, and we all know that we can go broke, especially if we are too adventurouse.

Lesson #1: play withing your limits.

Anywhow, all my friends don't understand why I play poker, nor have they understood. When they think of poker, they think of all the anti- gambling ads out there. They tell me it's gambling. Yes, I know, I tell them, but this isn't craps or roulette, this is a postive expectation game. They only hear about my losses, because losing is so strange to me. They never considered that I eat and pay rent with this income. All they think is that you can't win at poker.

How do I explain, or justify, my playing? Would it be good to invite them to a home game and bust them all out, so they can see I am good at what I do?

[rwanger]

If you aren't getting respect from your friends, start telling them about your wins (especially if you have done well in a tournament), and gloss over the losses.

That's what I do! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]

I am a winning player. I play many hours a week, and it is safe to say that the vast majority of my income comes from poker.

But I just took a really bad streak, and went broke. In reality, the situation is not entirely bad. Any poker player knows the risks involved, and we all know that we can go broke, especially if we are too adventurouse.

Lesson #1: play withing your limits.

Anywhow, all my friends don't understand why I play poker, nor have they understood. When they think of poker, they think of all the anti- gambling ads out there. They tell me it's gambling. Yes, I know, I tell them, but this isn't craps or roulette, this is a postive expectation game. They only hear about my losses, because losing is so strange to me. They never considered that I eat and pay rent with this income. All they think is that you can't win at poker.

How do I explain, or justify, my playing? Would it be good to invite them to a home game and bust them all out, so they can see I am good at what I do?

[/ QUOTE ]


If you busted, maybe they aren't wrong.

The game I play, 2-4, i'm super overbankrolled. It is significantly impossible for me to go broke playing within my limits.

[TStoneMBD]

you have to realize that your post is going to make others think you might not actually be a winning player, or at last an intelligent one right?

[davet]

yep, I realize that people would think I am some sort of donk, and that made writing out this post a tad bit difficult.

I did make a major mistake a while ago, and that was playing a bit too high for me, which, now I know not to be some sort of adventurer.

So that is that. The odd argument that one of my friends make is that since most of my oppostion is so bad (I still play in LL) that it would be impossible to beat them. I explained that it sounds counter- intuitive to play against only good players.

[SavageMiser]

Hmm. If one were to play well and exercise correct financial management, there would be no need for justification.

It is difficult to persuade someone that "poker isn't gambling" if you've lost all your money playing it.

I think you've got to go back and find out why you're broke. Be honest with yourself first, then worry about others.

[punter11235]

[ QUOTE ]
this is a postive expectation game

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not.

[Mikey]

"How do I explain, or justify, my playing? Would it be good to invite them to a home game and bust them all out, so they can see I am good at what I do?"

How can you do that if you lost all your money?

People in general have a typical symptom of what I call "the can't" Instead of asking the question how do you do it? They tell you its impossible and wrong and then you are left thinking about how the hell they don't understand you.


At first I was upset at this notion, making it my business to tell people, to show people, but they don't get it. Now i'm glad they don't get it, because if they did I'd have to find something else to do to make money.

Be thankful they don't understand, its what makes this game so great. Accept the fact that they don't.

[xniNja]

Everyone here is missing the important lesson from your post. Well there are a couple.

1) You aren't a winning player. This is a defined book term, the situation you described isn't it. This isn't an insult, it means you have a lot to change to become a winning player, if you so desired.

2) The title "Took a bad streak, how do you justify playing to other people?" Let's us know off the bat you aren't interested in poker. You're interested in other people.

3) [ QUOTE ]
How do I explain, or justify, my playing? Would it be good to invite them to a home game and bust them all out, so they can see I am good at what I do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Same point as two. Your intent in inviting other people to a home game should be to take their money, not impress, justify, or befriend them. Get your priorities straight and ask yourself if you play poker for money or for the approval of your friends.

Edit: 4) If you bust and lose all your money, the last thing on your mind should be trying to convince your friends that you are good at poker. It should be plugging your leaks and rebuilding a bankroll, getting a job, or reading a book.

[MediaPA]

Well, I'll speak in generalities and about myself. I thought that I was a good home poker player and ventured into the online world after having a little success in casinos. At first I made enough to pay off my cable and phone bills, but quickly I learned that I didn't have the information needed to succeed. My initial opinion was formed on a sprint as opposed to a marathon. I dropped a ton of money through various leaks, the worst of which being poor bankroll management (adventurous, I think you used).

I'd talk to my friends whenever I was down or even. They didn't understand why I didn't stop or kept playing. Well, like you I felt it was a game where I had an edge versus other types of casino gambling. You will never change the opinions of people on gambling and poker. Imagine trying to win a pro-life/pro-choice debate with someone who has made up their mind. It's wasted breath.

Maybe you can be a winning player longterm. If you are broke, what does that mean exactly? You've got no money in the bank, but paid 5k in bills through poker? You lost your initial stake of 1k plus winnings, but have more money somewhere? Note: I'm not suggesting you empty your lifesavings to play poker. Just advocating better bankroll management skills/limit choices.

Poker is a game which involves skill and luck (hence gambling). People will not understand even if you break them in a home game. That doesn't matter. If you think you are a 'winning' player. Get a part time job, pay your bills, and put extra money towards rebuilding a roll for poker.

I'm up a little from poker at the moment, but I don't even think about considering myself a long term winning player. Honestly, I never will be. I've shown time and time again that I don't have the tools necessary for it. I wish I had a breakdown of the 'adventurous' (amazingly stupid) things that I've done. I went 'broke' (meaning I lost my poker stake, only to extend that amount 3 times to about -10k).

Good luck to you, but listen to people's advice/comments on here. They aren't trying to mislead you. Many have had similar experiences. If you were at the table with them, they'd skin you alive. Just some free advice. Take it or leave it.

[Dave H.]

[ QUOTE ]
Would it be good to invite them to a home game and bust them all out, so they can see I am good at what I do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you've played a lot of poker. So you know that in the short run (like a home game for an evening), ANYTHING can happen. Since impressing/convincing your friends seems to be very important to you, I wouldn't want to take that kind of gamble at all! I daresay it would backfire on you.

[SNOWBALL138]

Try to not discuss poker with your friends. Its just going to be a sore subject for everyone involved. Also, whatever you do, don't discuss your negative results with people that don't understand the game. Whenever I mention that I have a losing session to a friend of mine, he always gets really concerned and says "Why?"

I think I'm going to set a world record trying to explain to him that in limit, you don't really control whether you win or lose so much as you control by how much.

[Komodo]

I dont get it. How is it possible to be a winning player and go broke? Have you cashed out a lot? If so, then youre not broke.

[davet]

I do study this game and my library is as thourough as anybody's, for sure. What is frustrating is that my friends don't realize how much work and thought goes into learning this game, especially learning hand- reading, tells, etc.

It may all look simple on paper, but in practice it is quite different, and even the worlds top experts are helpless in the face of cold cards. Yeah, they can win a hand, and even a game, but when it is showdown to showdown, he or she will have to fold all of the losers in the end, or show them down, and that is still money lost.

I do work for myself. I make decent income, and I round out my income using poker. I did the math in Gambling Theory and figured out all the fun stuff I can expect to happen. Of coarse, this is all worst case scenario, unfortunately, that is exactly what happened.

As far as my own numbers go, I am still up over- all, so poker has been a profitable experience, and I am close to expectation.

I have thought about why this happened a lot over the past week. I have taken a bit of a break from poker. I just played the other day, and trust me, if feels way different now. Almost more stable.

The biggest mistake I made was adventuring. I did this for tow reasons: I was getting bored at my regular games, and I wanted to make more money.

This adventurous attitude has always been my way of approaching life. For example, rather than simply move up the ranks and learn all there is to learn about movie- making, I simply decided to produce one and see what would happen. I left my hometown with pennies in my pocket, etc. I always felt that big decisions were to be made immediately. I am a person that loves pressure, and when it isn't hot enough, I will build more. I am one of those who thrive on pressure, and this also contributes to my adventurous attitude. I almost can't think in homeostatic conditions, which is what happens when you play a game you can beat almost everyday.

I also made the mistake of dipping into my poker bnkrll to pay for other things, rather than wait a couple of months to handle all of these things. We do have to be honest here and accept that life does happen and some things can be listed as "urgent."

I do realize that this post must scream of psychological shorcomings, and I have been really looking at myself with this question. At the same time I have been studying, and I find it easier when my mind has not been used to play poker for the past several hours.

Oddly, in the end, it is easy to see other people's problems, but it is way harder to see your own.

Finally, Zen and the Art of Poker does a bit of writing about all of this, ie... flush with money.

I only want to try and explore what can cause all of this to happen.

And seriously, if we can do this without taking shots at my intelligence. I think that I am simply bieng dis- armed, not stupid. I have a hard time believing that I am the only poster on this site that busted their bnkrll. I only intend to explore possible reasons why a person may go broke, rather than donk- playing.

And about the home game. I wrote that sentence more out of frustration. I realize that that could backfire, and probably would.

[Marlow]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is a postive expectation game

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not even close. In another post, it was said that only 7-8% of all players are winning players.

[Marlow]

Keep playing. Just focus on this one leak. Doing things that put yuor BR at risk are the single biggest holes in poker. Period. Just like you said, the best players in the world would go broke if they had a bad streak. I've read over and over that indeed many top players have gone broke because of poor money management skills. It must suck to know that you can sit at the big game, but instead have to figure out a way to rebuild. Or if you get staked, to know that you're millions in the hole, and even if you win the WSOP big dance that you are basically breaking even.

Bottom line: stop [censored] around and fix whatever it is that makes you play above your head. You will never be a long-term winner if you can't fix this leak.

FWIW: I had a similar leak and plugged it about 6 months ago. For the first time ever, I'm building a proper roll.

GL2U

Marlow

[SNOWBALL138]

Yeah, too true. One time at a home game, my friend (who doesn't play poker) told everyone that I'm a skilled player. I ended up being a loser for the night, and I remember how much it sucked when I had to hear about it from my friend.

[SydPokerFan]

[ QUOTE ]





How do I explain, or justify, my playing? Would it be good to invite them to a home game and bust them all out, so they can see I am good at what I do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Be careful with this lesson. I invited a couple of friends and their partners around to my place and we played an 8 seated tourney. I had to explain the hand rankings and blinds etc. After much re-explanation and further re-explanations we started the game. An hour later, one of the girlfriends took down the final pot squealing with delight and confessing that she had forgotten that a flush would have beaten her trips!
(I came 5th /images/graemlins/crazy.gif)

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
It is difficult to persuade someone that "poker isn't gambling" if you've lost all your money playing it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Lol. This says it all.

Poster gambled aways his money on a higher limit then he could afford and wants to tell his friends he isnt gambling.

Hehe, it really is funny.