Negotiating the 5-10 Rule

I know the general rule of thumb is to call for set value when the price is 5-10% of the shorter stack involved in the hand. I'm wondering what factors influence decisions at the margins of this rule? In this instance, I've got a large stack, which is an argument against being conservative, but I also have every reason to think I'm among the better players at the table, which is an argument in favor of being conservative. What's your decision here, and more importantly how do you arrive at it?

#Game No : 2612684102
***** Hand History for Game 2612684102 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:15240155 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Sunday, August 28, 14:11:35 EDT 2005
Table Table 13990 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 4: poker_pute ( $815 )
Seat 5: Tydied ( $585 )
Seat 9: DTrain79 ( $700 )
Seat 7: Lance0187 ( $850 )
Seat 1: lindus79 ( $830 )
Seat 8: Bearlacher ( $835 )
Seat 3: Fuglsang7 ( $835 )
Seat 6: HERO ( $1790 )
Seat 10: Soulstarr ( $760 )
Trny:15240155 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 3c 3s ]
HERO calls [15].
Lance0187 folds.
Bearlacher folds.
DTrain79 calls [15].
Soulstarr folds.
lindus79 folds.
Fuglsang7 calls [15].
poker_pute raises [80].
Tydied folds.
HERO???

Here's another example from today. Once again I'm a big chipleader and the price is just about 10% of the larger stacks who are calling. In this instance, I've got a lot less reason to think they'll actually pay me off if I do make the set, but there are more players in the hand, and the pot is quite large already. Plus, since there is a side pot, I might get to see a free turn and/or river, but then again I am more likely to look strong if I do make the set and bet out. Again, I'm curious to know how others are thinking about these situations.

#Game No : 2612913737
***** Hand History for Game 2612913737 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:15241428 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Sunday, August 28, 15:00:09 EDT 2005
Table Table 13772 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 6: HERO ( $2265 )
Seat 10: CRAIGDUDE777 ( $385 )
Seat 4: rapidrangel ( $650 )
Seat 7: crs21405 ( $775 )
Seat 3: rsoxwrx ( $1475 )
Seat 9: labrew20 ( $800 )
Seat 8: SamGerch18 ( $180 )
Seat 1: crosthred ( $1470 )
Trny:15241428 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 2d 2h ]
rsoxwrx folds.
rapidrangel folds.
HERO calls [30].
crs21405 calls [30].
SamGerch18 is all-In [180]
labrew20 folds.
CRAIGDUDE777 calls [165].
crosthred calls [150].
HERO???

[Degen]

you have made an error in the 5-10 rule

it is if it is less than or equal to 5% of theirs AND your stack...then always call, if it more than 10% of theirs OR yours then never call and if it is between 5 and 10 then you can use your judgement based upon how likely you think you can extract his whole stack

OK, thanks for the clarification.

The examples I gave still meet those conditions, I believe, and I'm interesting in seeing how others "use their judgment" in these situations at the margins of the rule.

[DJ Sensei]

Other factors I use when implementing the 5/10 rule in STTs:
-Position. i'm much more inclined to call at around 10% if i have position on the aggressor.
-More than one other caller. More chance that somebody makes a good (but worse than yours) hand, and will pay you off.
-Reads on villain as loose/aggressive. More likely to put chips in without making his hand

If several or all of these apply, I'll gladly call larger than usual raises for the chance to break someone/double up.

Generally though, playing for set value is only effective in the first few levels. Once blinds are 50/100 and up, its best to either fold low pairs or play them aggressively/pick off continuation bets on low flops.

These are both tempting but ... the first hand I fold, mostly because of the 2 still to act behind you. If you call and get raised you will feel like a fish.

I fold the second as well, 150 chips is 150 chips and 22 isn't much of a hand especially if you have reason to doubt getting paid off if you hit. Not to mention the guy who's all in could easily have a pair and where does that leave you?

[Taraz]

I would definitely fold the first hand. It is early in the sng and that is a pretty hefty raise that was put in. Given that there are people left to act behind you I think it is too risky to call.

The second situation is a little tougher IMO. I would personally call since you are immediately getting better than 4-1, there is only one person left to act behind you, and like you said you might get free cards if people don't want to bluff into a dry side pot. I actually think that you might get more action in this hand if you flop your set than the first hand. A lot of people have put in a significant amount of chips and are likely psychologically tied to the pot. Depending on the texture of the flop I'm not sure that I would bet out if I hit my set either.

I think that folding is safe in either scenario, but I personally think that winning in that second situation would let you coast into the money.