5/10 NL hand @ Borg

[foobar]

Hey all,

Good 5/10 main game at the Borg late friday, both villian and I have about $1500 when this hand comes up...

2 limpers to me w/ QTh, I limp along and so do 10,000 other people. 7 players to the flop of:

Ah 7h 2h

Check to me, I lead for 50. Player immediately behind me raises to 150 straight. Folded back and I call. Turn makes the board:

Ah 7h 2h Jc

I check, villian leads for $300 and I call planning to pop him on the river, which comes another J

Ah 7h 2h Jc Jd

Well, there goes that plan, I check and villian leads for another $300. I call.

Not too interested in preflop commentary, but all thoughts on flop, turn, and river are appreciated.

Thanks

[Lucky]

Dont wait for river, at very least pop him on turn.

Also, with board like that, only one coming along is Kh or smaller flush. I probably raise and get all in on flop. If he's got KhJh, oh well.

[AZK]

check-raise turn. Do you play in the DC area?

[Rococo]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn makes the board:

Ah 7h 2h Jc

I check, villian leads for $300 and I call planning to pop him on the river

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously weren't going to feel comfortable popping the river if the board paired or a heart hit. That's too many cards to dodge. Raise the turn.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey all,

Good 5/10 main game at the Borg late friday, both villian and I have about $1500 when this hand comes up...

2 limpers to me w/ QTh, I limp along and so do 10,000 other people. 7 players to the flop of:

Ah 7h 2h

Check to me, I lead for 50. Player immediately behind me raises to 150 straight. Folded back and I call. Turn makes the board:

Ah 7h 2h Jc

I check, villian leads for $300 and I call planning to pop him on the river, which comes another J

Ah 7h 2h Jc Jd

Well, there goes that plan, I check and villian leads for another $300. I call.

Not too interested in preflop commentary, but all thoughts on flop, turn, and river are appreciated.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

I like flop and river. Turn, you know you gotta check/raise that.

[foobar]

I'm suprised everybody is so married to check raising the turn, although I suppose it is the standard line. Villian has just seen me lead into a field of seven players on the flop and call his raise cold....doesn't a c/r on the turn define my hand pretty precisely as a flush and cause him to lay down a bunch of hands I'd like him to stick around with (set, two pair, Ace + heart)?


AZK, I play in a fair amount of home games/tournies (some large, some small) in the DC area...PM me if you're interested.

there are plenty of ways to play this hand and the way you played was great. we try different things on differant hands and if a blank hits on the river (no pair board no heart) your play looks genius, and it was a good play. i dont think you want to give away how strong you are on the flop, with that many people in the hand i might even check the flop knowing someone is going to bet and maybe there will be a call in there and then raise..anyways on the turn i just changed my mind that your play was terrible (im a scitzoid(or however you spell it) there were 19-20 cards on the river that would be scare cards, which means more then 40% of the time you are going to be mad that you didnt get it in when you were sure, i think a check raise would be the best option so you were close, hoping he pot commits himself, and cant fold his A KH or trips. i cant see him pushing a flop like that without a hand like that unless he actually has you beat in which case there isnt really anything magical you can do about that, unless you learn that just calling with Q 10 pre flop is usually not a good move at a loose table. anyways i would like to know if u won on river or not, a bet of 300 seems kinda sneaky on the river.

[muzungu]

Huh, foobar, I think your plan is certainly worth considering. These nits all have itchy trigger fingers.

The flop flat call + turn c/r pretty much screams the nuts. If he is decent, and views you as solid, he will probably fold all of his losers.

On the other hand, if you call the turn and bet big on the river, he may very well put you on a whiffed flush draw and call.

Do you think he has a set? If you think so, I might just 3-bet the flop and push a blank turn. If not, then the board pairing is not so bad. I check/call a small bet and go with my read on a bigger one.

If a fourth heart comes, I'm not sure if I like a blocking bet or a check/call. When he bets the turn, I don't think he has the Kh, unless he has the AxKh.

I'd have to do a lot of iffy math to compare the outcome of all this to pushing and taking it down... offhand, I think the $ is deep enough that you can call the turn and try to stack him on the river. This is especially true if you think he is drawing dead, or close to it- I'd want a read on the flop before setting up this turn/river line.

-muz

[AdamBragar]

How about leading for like 75-100 on the turn, looking to get raised. Once raised, you pop it up big. Then at least there's some money in the pot once you define your hand. If no raise, and the river blanks, you push. If river pairs the board, maybe check/call the river.

The way the hand played out, you're not getting a lot of money in the pot with a really good hand. These are the hands you are looking for a big pot.

[cero_z]

Hi foobar,

[ QUOTE ]
I check, villian leads for $300 and I call planning to pop him on the river,

[/ QUOTE ]

Bad plan, unless he's a total idiot. Let's say a blank falls. Unless he's terrible or thinks you are, he doesn't have a reason to bet the river without a flush. Look at it from his perspective. He's shown a lot of strength on the flop and turn, and you're hanging in there. So, you have the Kh (and can't call on the river) or you have him beaten. He will check behind with anything that's not a flush. If he does have a flush, then he'd be very likely to get it all in with you on the turn, even though you've c/r'ed him. A c/r by you there says flush (not nut flush or Q-high flush), and he'll have to decide whether to believe you or not. If he has a flush himself, he's both less likely to believe you have one, and more likely to call anyway, since you might have a lower flush, and because some players just can't get away from a hand that big regardless.

Also, if he has a smaller heart and a 4th heart comes, you will miss out on all that dead action.

[ QUOTE ]
doesn't a c/r on the turn define my hand pretty precisely as a flush and cause him to lay down a bunch of hands I'd like him to stick around with (set, two pair, Ace + heart)?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it defines your hand, though not as clearly as if you'd c/r'd the river. But more importantly, you don't want him hanging around with the above hands without calling a raise on the turn, because those hands are just going to check behind you on the river. All you've done by not c/r'ing is given him a free shot to beat you.

This is the mistake I believe theBruiser sometimes makes; valuing the money left in your opponent's stack more than the money in the middle already. This is a big pot for this game. Your "call" on the turn puts almost $1000 in the pot, and you have $1000 left. Put it in on the turn, when he might call you with a weaker hand, and doesn't get to draw for free.

[foobar]

Thanks for this well-stated reply...it's changed the way I look at the hand. I think you're right, I was maybe too set on letting him pot commit himself for his stack...oh well /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anyhow, I called the river, villian showed down a flopped baby flush and I won a nice pot. FWIW, I talked to him about the hand later and he said that he would of folded to a c/r on the turn and I have no reason not to believe him...